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Awake Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 18 2004, 11:43 Hey everyone, I've just run across this site, been checking out some of the stuff on here, found some very cool artwork for new wallpapers. I have a daft newbie question I found the site because I was looking for aa decription of how to build or buy a set of tubular bells. I'd like to own a set, and I'd like to use the sound on an album I'm writing - which leaves me with either a sample that a K2000 can read, or an actual, real acoustic instrument. I'd prefer the latter. My questions, then, are these: 1. Does anyone know where I could buy a set of tubular bells, and how much I should pay? 2. If not, how difficult would it be to construct a set? There's a link on this site that describes tubular bells as being a series of 1.5" brass pipes of varying length. Do they have to be cast in brass? Does anyone know where I'd find the formula that links pitch with length, interior and exterior diameter? Any help at all on this would be really appreciated. ~Simon Back to top

ATTMO Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 18 2004, 18:04 well here is one link: http://www.rossmallets.com/chimes.html and also it is helpful to search/ask for "orchestral chimes" -------------- "Such is life; and we are but as grass that is cut down, and put into the oven and baked" - Jerome K Jerome Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 18 2004, 18:09 It all depends on the kind of sound that you want to obtain on your album. If you want to emulate Mike (i.e. you want to obtain the same sounds as his), then a set of real TBs is definitely not the ideal solution for you as Mike's sound (especially on TBIII) is as far as possible you can get from the sound of a real set, and very closer to a what you can obtain from a good sampling keyboard, as the K2000 AFAIK is . (I seem to remember him saying that the sound on TBIII was actually a cluster of samples of real bells and synths.) If, on the other hand, you like the actual instrument for whatever reason [maybe just because it looks cool... ], there's  Premier, who IMHO make awfully good sets [some pics of them were on their website, which unfortunately is under construction right now, but it looks like ATTMO found some other cool ones before I did... ]. I have no idea of prices, or on how-to-do-it-yourself... maybe Richard can tell you more. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: June 18 2004, 18:12 Ugo, I think you got it wrong. The sound on TBII is the one made up of samples. The bells on TBIII are real for all that I know. And of course, the sound on the original Tubular Bells album is a real set, too! Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 18 2004, 18:20 Well, Holger, in most cases I base what I say on what I read. And what I've read here on tubular.net ("Mike Oldfield's 10 Favorite Tracks", MOJO Magazine, November 1998), towards the end of Mike's comments on "Far above the clouds" is exactly as follows: Quote There's a huge build-up, made from samples of my favourite drum patterns on my other albums, and the climax is a combination of bell samples that sounded like the bell from hell. I hope Mike's comment was clearer to you than mine. Also, I  seem to remember Richard, or someone else, saying that the sound on TBII didn't use a great deal of samples, as it was a pretty standard preset on a pretty standard Korg synth. By the way, I wasn't talking about the first album at all. I was thinking of the bell sound that seems to me to be Mike's better-known one. Maybe it's on this, that I may of course be completely wrong. No ill feelings towards you, of course. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 18 2004, 19:01 Not sure about the samples on TB2 - Mike claimed they were the 'toy' set of bells he found in a music shop somewhere or other, sampled into his Kurzweil K2000. They do sound a little like the bells from the M1 though, I'd not be surprised if some M1 bells were layered in there, as Mike did use the M1 a fair bit elsewhere. TB3 is definitely a layer...I did program a similar patch once, I think he uses some non-bell sounds in there too. The price for a professional quality 1-1/2 octave set of Tubular Bells would be somewhere around the US $3,000 mark. any good orchestral percussion supplier ought to be able to get you a set, if they don't already have them in stock. With regards making them, they do really have to be made from brass, as the type of metal affects the sound. There are formulae available for the accurate construction of bells. The best place to ask for advice would be the Wind, Percussion and Miscellaneous Experimental Instruments section of the Musical Instrument Makers' Forum. Somebody there will almost certainly be able to point you in the right direction, and indeed, you'll probably find someone who's done it before. Back to top

Ben Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: June 18 2004, 20:11 If you happen to be in the UK, or can order from here, they sell them at http://www.normans.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Tuned_Percussion_41.html for £1,773.74 inc. VAT (About $3,260.49 at the current rate though :-x). I dunno if thats a good price or what but just thought i'd let ya know. -------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ~ Ben -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: June 19 2004, 06:44 Hey Ugo, didn't mean any insult to you of course!   I'm sure I read an interview in which Mike said that he and Trevor Horn collected samples of famous bells for TBII, though I'm not sure to what extent they actually used them on the album. I can confirm that the TBII bell sounds very M1-ish! About TBIII, well, I guess I was wrong then. I had it in my mind that he said he had used the same "toy" set he had sampled for TBII, but this time actually played it... Mike's most famous bell is the one from the original TB though, how could it be otherwise?! Back to top

ATTMO Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 19 2004, 09:54 what exactly is M1 ? some kind of vintage synth? and btw how were the Tubular Bells replaced in OTB? @Awake: if you wanted to get the real TB I bell sound you would have to hit them with a coal hammer. However, as mike experienced, it doesn't exactly enlarge their lifespan. -------------- "Such is life; and we are but as grass that is cut down, and put into the oven and baked" - Jerome K Jerome Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: June 19 2004, 10:07 An M1 is a "workstation" type synth built by Korg from the late 80s onwards (now discontinued). Its built-in samples are quite obvious in places on Mike's albums of the time (Heavens Open, Tubular Bells II). It's a workhorse of a keyboard, great to work with if it's the only thing you have. In The Orchestral Tubular Bells, the bells were "replaced" with... Tubular Bells I'd say. They're an orchestral instrument so there was no need to replace them. Back to top

Awake Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 24 2004, 14:03 Thankyou all for the suggestions and comments. Some specific responses: Quote (Ugo @ June 18 2004, 18:09) It all depends on the kind of sound that you want to obtain on your album. If you want to emulate Mike (i.e. you want to obtain the same sounds as his), then a set of real TBs is definitely not the ideal solution for you as Mike's sound (especially on TBIII) is as far as possible you can get from the sound of a real set, and very closer to a what you can obtain from a good sampling keyboard, as the K2000 AFAIK is. (I seem to remember him saying that the sound on TBIII was actually a cluster of samples of real bells and synths.) If, on the other hand, you like the actual instrument for whatever reason [maybe just because it looks cool... ], there's  Premier, who IMHO make awfully good sets. I have no idea of prices, or on how-to-do-it-yourself... Well, I guess the sound I'm looking for is best described as being the sound used in Tubular Bells II, section The Bell. I don't really like the higher-register bells, but the deeper ones, especially in that end section, sound fantastic. The bells on TBIII are a bit "ehhhh", which is pretty much my feeling on TBIII as a whole. The K2000 is a very broad, powerfull tool, but it takes a lot of work. I'm firmly of the opinion that there isn't much you can't do with VAST, but doing any kind of programming with it takes too much time and patience. Truth be told, I tend to find myself using the K2000 presets, a Micropiano, and a Korg X5 most of the time. Quote (korgscrew @ June 18 2004, 19:01) Not sure about the samples on TB2 - Mike claimed they were the 'toy' set of bells he found in a music shop somewhere or other, sampled into his Kurzweil K2000. They do sound a little like the bells from the M1 though, I'd not be surprised if some M1 bells were layered in there, as Mike did use the M1 a fair bit elsewhere. Hmm. So they're samples? Okay. Well, I'm open-minded to the process...The idea is to record demos first, using synths for the bell snad drums, then re-record those tracks with actual acoustic instruments. As a general rule, I don't like using synths to replace acoustic instruments, full stop. But if the sampled bells sound good enough, I'm not completely die-hard for the real thing. Quote (Holger @ June 19 2004, 10:07) An M1 is a "workstation" type synth built by Korg from the late 80s onwards (now discontinued). Its built-in samples are quite obvious in places on Mike's albums of the time (Heavens Open, Tubular Bells II). It's a workhorse of a keyboard, great to work with if it's the only thing you have. Could you point to any specific examples of the M1 on TBII? That album has a lot of my favourite keyboard sounds on it, and I wouldn't be completely adverse to having an excuse to ebay an M1. Quote (Ben @ June 18 2004, 20:11) If you happen to be in the UK, or can order from here... I actually just moved from there to Indiana a few months ago. Back to top

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