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MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 06 2008, 19:10 After reading a few tech articles regarding mike sound on this forum I decided to try & recreate one of Mike's guitar sounds based on what I read It think it may have been his guitar technician not sure.  Basically the raw guitar signal followed this path. Guitar -> graphic equaliser Treble boost -> Amp with distort -> Graphic equaliser -> Noise Gate -> Compressor -> graphic equaliser  for final tone Reverb I discovered Native Instruments Guitar Rig 3 which is what lead me down this path. It's brilliant! I pulled in all the relevant components as mentioned above into a rack and after a few tweaks got a very familliar sound virtually straight away! I used a Fender Telecaster and had to use left hand vibrato rather than Mike's method as the Telecaster does not have a tremolo arm/whammy bar! I've uploaded the raw roughish sample here in a TBII style... http://www.jgbm9.force9.co.uk/MP3/MOSample.mp3 Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 11:09 MG, that sounded authentic.  Excellent! Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 12:13 Quote (MikeGeorge @ Mar. 07 2008, 00:10) I used a Fender Telecaster and had to use left hand vibrato rather than Mike's method as the Telecaster does not have a tremolo arm/whammy bar! I though Mr O did use left hand vib alot - although I know he uses the bar too as you can see it on the video's but not so much.  Either way - nice little piece - try doing a Tub 2 - blue Saloon sound. -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 13:15 Thanks Bassman for your comments. Ray, Yes now you mention it he does use LH vibrato which I guess is natural thing to do anyway. I'm just used to seeing him holding the bar. Looks like he tends to use vibrato with bar when playing right up the neck, I guess it's just easier to get vibrato up there especially with 24 fretted guitar. His sound is also down to the style, grace notes and the beautiful melodic notes that he chooses over the whole thing along with the emotional expressive feeling that he puts into it. I tried that sound over a piece i've started playing with and it started to sound like Carlos Santana which annoyed me as I found his sound/style a bit too processed and synthetic for my liking - not that I've heard that much of it. Now you've set the challenge I'll have a go at recreating Blue Saloon sound if I get the time and can find some setup ideas. Cheers. Mike Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 14:38 I can't recall off the top of my head any examples where he is seen using the tremolo bar.  I always seem to see him using his LH side-to-side to get those wicked fast vibratos.  I find it interesting to compare him to David Gilmour when it comes to technique.  Gilmour bends his notes in the up-and-down motion using three fingers for strength and he gets really DEEP swooping variations, but not nearly as rapid a movement as MO uses.  It's the speed of his vibrato that gives his solos, such as the one in "Family Man", such a dramatic, demented quality.  What video clips are out there that show him using the bar?  Too curious now. Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 16:54 Quote (Bassman @ Mar. 11 2008, 19:38) I can't recall off the top of my head any examples where he is seen using the tremolo bar.  I always seem to see him using his LH side-to-side to get those wicked fast vibratos.  I find it interesting to compare him to David Gilmour when it comes to technique.  Gilmour bends his notes in the up-and-down motion using three fingers for strength and he gets really DEEP swooping variations, but not nearly as rapid a movement as MO uses.  It's the speed of his vibrato that gives his solos, such as the one in "Family Man", such a dramatic, demented quality.  What video clips are out there that show him using the bar?  Too curious now. I believe the side to side vibro is a MO trait from early on.  As opposed to most rock guitarists bending the strings.  That's whay I chose Blue Saloon as that involves both types obend and axial vibrato.  It is also a cool PRS sound - so you better go and invest in one - (there is the excuse you've always been looking for!!.   And I agreee that axial vib is not so easy past fret 20.  Looking forward to you sound byte. Ray -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 18:01 Quote (Bassman @ Mar. 11 2008, 14:38) I can't recall off the top of my head any examples where he is seen using the tremolo bar. Strange isn't it because I would say he's always using it! I'm sure I remember him using it extensively on TBII premier.  A good excuse to have another look and find some examples! I listen to a a lot of MO, but I can't recall the solo in Family Man it was never one of my favourites - actually now I vaguely remember something a bit demented in there. I'll dig that out & have a listen! Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 18:14 Quote (Ray @ Mar. 11 2008, 16:54) It is also a cool PRS sound - so you better go and invest in one - (there is the excuse you've always been looking for!!.   And I agreee that axial vib is not so easy past fret 20.  Looking forward to you sound byte. Ray Yes always fancied one of those! I bought my Custom Telecaster S/H in Chandlers, (just drove passed it by chance) I wasn't even thinking of buying a guitar and they let me play it in the basement all amped up, it virtually played itself when I tried it! Later I went down Tin Pan Alley & tried some Japanese copies which felt terrible. I vowed then that if the Telecaster was as good as I remembered it when I went back I would buy it. When I got there somebody was playing it! Eventually I tried it again and it was as good as I remembered so had to have it. So don't let me near a PRS! I later found out that MO gets much of his guitar stuff from them. Blue Saloon sounding a bit daunting now! Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 18:29 http://tubular.net/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=87;t=8109 See this video of Mike showing his guitar tecnique and see the little axial vibes he throws in all the time. I taught myself to play (depite being tone deaf and musically inept) and i did so by learning to play some of Oldfields tunes.  It has taken me 30years to almost get them right but along the way i picked up the axial slide technique from videos and listening - so now I don't use the bendybar at all and i only bend occasionally - like in Blue Saloon. Second hand Guitars are just the best - always.   Even Mr Clapton said that.  I got an old PRS HollowBody and it is just soo nice to play.  I also bought an old Axis Music man in Trinidad for about $200 and that is another very nice guitar to play - i've played new ones in Shops and thought - nothing special there. You should pop round and you can have a go playing on one of Mike's old guitars - he picked some superb guitars and proceded to wear the hell out of some of them, but they still sound very distinctive.  Like you say, almost - the guitars play themselves. If you do Blue Saloon and send it to me i'll do my feable version over the top as a second guitar and send it back to you. Ray   -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 18:35 God, yeah!  Sure it might be sort of a goofy song, but in Family Man he makes the thing just SCREAM!  A frenzied howl from the gut that's somewhat reminiscent of the final minutes of Ommadawn 1.  I LOVE those kinds of solos from him. MG if you have the chops to come close to sounding like that (and you've already shown that you can do justice to the instrument), then I'm jealous! Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Mar. 11 2008, 18:46 That is probably his Gibson SG or Gibson L6. -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 13 2008, 06:17 Quote (Bassman @ Mar. 11 2008, 18:35) MG if you have the chops to come close to sounding like that (and you've already shown that you can do justice to the instrument), then I'm jealous! Well I don't know about that. I'm a bit of a sloppy guitarist really. Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: Mar. 13 2008, 07:02 Quote (Ray @ Mar. 11 2008, 18:29) I'm not sure you can 'pop' to Scotland from where I am. The last time I was there was for TBII Premier...so maybe it's about time I visited again, you never know! Thanks for the offer. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 13 2008, 10:26 From the DVDs Mike seems to use a combination.Predominately axial vib but he has been seen doing traitional up and down vib (the solo on TB part 2 on Exposed springs instantly to mind),usually when bending as axial vib is imposible to do with thhe string bent up (i have tried many times and just cannot make it work).Then there's the use of trems on the guitar.From when he got the first strat in i bekiev '82/83 he has used the trem arm and carried this on with the PRS.He uses it 'hank style' resting in the palm while he plays with the fingers.I can't do that either! -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

tek_uk Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: April 26 2008, 11:12 Hi MikeGeorge, very nice sound indeed. Is there a chance you could post more details about the settings you used? (or a screenshots about the NI patch). Specifically, frequencies used for the EQ settings, compressor settings etc... Thanks Back to top

MikeGeorge Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: Aug. 2001 Posted: July 20 2008, 18:43 Hi tek_uk rapid response team here! Sorry I completely missed your question on this post back in April! I've uploaded a jpeg of the stack that I used for that sound. Hope this helps. Mike My Webpage Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: Mar. 25 2009, 02:46 It would be great to have the mastery of technique you guys have with axial and vibrato, years of practice, impressed, deb Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 25 2009, 10:56 The wierdest thing is all i do know is axial vib.Damn you Mike and your wierd ass playing technique!Sounds much nicer though.Mike has always described it as a violinist's vibrato but classical players use it.It's really very difficult to use a 'traditional' up annd down vibrato and get any sort of sustain on a nylon strung instrument without using axial vibrato. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: Mar. 25 2009, 23:04 hey caveman  i agree! mikes technique is nearly bloody impossible to copy with the same quality of sound, but we can go nuts trying!  deb Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: April 16 2009, 02:02 Mike used his gibson l6 for studio recording, that is one guitar along with the suite he still has, that would be great to have, he may have sold it though, deb Back to top

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