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jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 15:53 I haven't found a topic about that track so I create one... Who in the world would mix a unemotional sequenced bad-sounding mono piano sample (the 10-year old piano preset of the Roland JV1080) with a 75-year old Steinway Grand Piano? Answer: Mike Oldfield. Why he did that? Simply because he couldn't play the whole track on the piano with his two hands. Or... yes he could have played it. It would have take him some practicing. One more reason to say this album is a very lazy effort. Very very lazy... I feel so sorry to say this because I'm such a fan of MO's music. I even like TBIII A LOT. But this one... wow, some tracks are really amazingly bad. Some others are good (I actually enjoy 2 or 3 tracks which I find "OK"). Back to top

The Bell(end) Group: Members Posts: 1051 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 16:06 I may be naive, but I base my opinions on how it SOUNDS!! I'm not saying that you're wrong, it may well have been a very lazy album. But if Mike makes something so good via being 'lazy' then it's fine with me. I am not a musician, so if something sounds hard to play, I'll assume it's hard to play, this track sounds nice, so I'll keep believing that it's a grand piece indeed   Blackbird is one of my favourite L+S tracks   -------------- When the night's on fi-ya, do you need love's arms to hold yew? :D Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 16:36 I also found it odd when I first heard 'Blackbird' and thought "Wait a minute, you're telling me THIS is a Steinway Grand Piano"? Not because it sounds bad to me, but because according to what Mike had said, I thought the entire piece was played on a real piano - and I assumed such thing would be obvious, after all, he has all the gear and could play the piano really well. At least the song itself is not bad, but yeah, I can't help but picture Mike as Robbie Rotten now MIKE: Argh! Can't a lazy musician ever have a rest? -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 18:12 I don't think he's lazy. I think he might perhaps be impatient. Back to top

Tubularman Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 2304 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 18:20 Quote (jeremyroberts @ Oct. 16 2005, 15:53) I actually enjoy 2 or 3 tracks which I find "OK"). may i ask? its strange because Blackbird is one of my favorite songs from the album. The sound of Blackbirds gives me summer bike feelings. When you bike down green landscapes and see the trees shining in the sun and the warm winds blows in your face.. -------------- Mike Oldfield M i x e s https://soundcloud.com/tubularman Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 20:09 Tracks that I actually enjoy are Sunset Surfing (horrible voice, but I still enjoy the track, and the guitars on the instrumental section: great! Nightshade (makes me think of Alan Parsons' latest album) and maybe Angelique as well (though I don't understand why it is pronounced "eghelik" when, at the end of the song, you can hear "angelique" pronounced correctly). Here are the tracks I can't bear: Blackbird (because of the fact that I'm a musician and that I know that piano sound which I have on one of my synths, and I just can't use it anymore because I have some other great piano sounds) - by the way, I think three hands are needed to play that track in real time. The Gate (ooooyaya-ooo-oo-yaaaa-ooo-ooo-yaaa-yaya-yaaoo, you know what I mean). Rocky (see Blackbird's piano) The rest is - for me - somewhere between OK and uninteresting. First Steps is nice (I'd have liked to hear some reverb on the classical guitar, which sounds much too dry to my ears), Romance is not my cup of tea. Back to top

Tubularman Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 2304 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Oct. 16 2005, 20:45 Have you heard the german version of Nightshade? that better! Good to hear that you likes some of them. -------------- Mike Oldfield M i x e s https://soundcloud.com/tubularman Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 17 2005, 01:50 I like Blackbird quite a lot, but I can't honestly detect any difference in the piano sounds. I certainly didn't know it wasn't all on the one piano. Perhaps I'll have to listen again, I know I haven't become totally familiar with it yet, but could someone please tell me which bits are played on the keyboard and which are on the piano? -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Chicular Group: Members Posts: 240 Joined: Sep. 2004 Posted: Oct. 17 2005, 08:16 I think Jeremy is talking about the bit that is played with the left hand (the chords). I don't notice any difference but then again i don't play piano myself.  It's an excellent track. Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 17 2005, 19:27 Yes, it's what's played by the left hand. It's recorded on a sequencer and "quantized" (that means that if the timing is loose, the sequencer fixes the notes on the right beat, that gives that very non-human feel). Another layer is played by the fake piano, it's some kind of arppegios playing on what's played by the left hand (and then you have that very simplistic part played on the real piano, with more depth and more reverb on it). That piano sound first appeared on the Roland JV serie synthesizers, 11 years ago. It was a poor mono sample but additional cards were available with much better piano sounds sampled in stereo. I have that sound on my 8-year old Roland XP80 keyboard, but I never use it since I have one of those additional cards with better piano sounds. I admit that sometimes being a musician doesn't help to enjoy a piece of music. Back to top

The Bell(end) Group: Members Posts: 1051 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 13:56 Quote (jeremyroberts @ Oct. 18 2005, 00:27) I admit that sometimes being a musician doesn't help to enjoy a piece of music. I guess that helps me then! Having so little skill with guitars, it makes me appreciate them played well even more!   -------------- When the night's on fi-ya, do you need love's arms to hold yew? :D Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 15:01 I also realised that played on a regular stereo system, Blackbird is ok. I first heard it with headphones, so I recognized immediately the piano sound I dislike. Back to top

hergest fridge Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 15:28 .Just a thought perhaps thats the sound Mike wanted,you never know!! Back to top

The Man who is He.. Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 15:54 Quote (jeremyroberts @ Oct. 16 2005, 15:53) One more reason to say this album is a very lazy effort. Very very lazy... Okay Jeremy, so you think Mike O is lazy. How many posts must you post saying the same? These posts are everywhere. About the track though, I have no idea why Mike recorded it the way he did, the piano voice does spoil what would be a nice track, but why didn't he just record the piano more than once? I believe Mike wanted this sound, but I cannot understand why. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 16:03 Quote (The Man who is He.. @ Oct. 27 2005, 15:54) I believe Mike wanted this sound, but I cannot understand why. "The past meets the future", I guess! And I think I can hear the past falling down a well, screaming "why do you do this to meeeeeeeeeee?..." -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 18:35 Quote (The Man who is He.. @ Oct. 27 2005, 15:54) Okay Jeremy, so you think Mike O is lazy. Just plain wrong. Please read every word of my posts. Enough said.   Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 18:39 Quote (The Man who is He.. @ Oct. 27 2005, 15:54) I believe Mike wanted this sound, but I cannot understand why. (sorry for the double post which was necessary for the double quote) He wanted this sound because it could be sequenced. Ie, played through a sequencer, quantized (I already explained that elsewhere) and played back by the sequencer and let him play with one hand on the real piano. It can be interpreted as laziness or convenience. Both often come together, by the way Back to top

The Man who is He.. Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 27 2005, 21:32 Jeremy.I never sought out some way to offend you. I hope it's all O K with you and I. But I heard this lazy thing too much now, and while i may have misunderstood your opinion on such things, the last thing I would wish for is an internet spam war. Though I really do not like L+S not everybody hears it from a creative perspective. Mike I do not believe is being lazy, but however..... I do believe he has spent too much of his time barking up his own tree!!!!!! Back to top

stevenmd779 Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Oct. 28 2005, 00:17 I think it's the music itself that counts, not how its recorded. The piano sounded real to me; and its good that he was efficient so he would have more time to compose other stuff. I've never heard any timeing errors in music so how can it sound any differant if it's quantimized? -------------- "A people who would sacrifice liberty for security will lose both, and deserve neither." Ben Franklin Boogs is fo' da chode man. Back to top

jeremyroberts Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Nov. 01 2005, 15:15 Quote (stevenmd779 @ Oct. 28 2005, 00:17) I think it's the music itself that counts, not how its recorded. The piano sounded real to me; and its good that he was efficient so he would have more time to compose other stuff. I've never heard any timeing errors in music so how can it sound any differant if it's quantimized? The music itslef is more important, of course. But the way it's recorded is important as well, believe me Quantization is not only for correcting audible timing errors. A human playing is always a bit "loose", but it's so slight (for good musicians) that you won't hear it as an error. It will rather be perceived like some "life" in the music (but I insist it's not really audible). When it's quantized, it becomes 100% perfectly in time and the "life" is lost. It then sounds as if a robot was playing. Edit: the quantization is particularly clear when several notes are played together, as in Blackbird. The notes arrive exactly at the same moment, though if it's played live by a human, there will be a very slight different timing. Back to top

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