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Topic: BELLS, BELLS, BELLS, BELLS, BELLS, BELLS!!!!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ugo Offline




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Posted: July 04 2001, 16:30

I CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE REASON WHY SO MANY PEOPLE HERE IN THESE FORUMS AND ELSEWHERE ARE CRITICIZING MIKE FOR RELEASING SO MANY TUBULAR BELLS ALBUMS. "TUBULAR BELLS" IS HIS TRADEMARK AND I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT MIKE KEEPS INSISTING ON IT SHOWS HIS COHERENCE, A QUALITY SO RARE IN TODAY'S ARTISTS. PLUS, IN MY OWN OPINION, THOSE PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE MIKE ARE NOT AWARE THAT MIKE DOES NOT CREATE MUSIC FOR US BUT MAINLY FOR HIMSELF. IF WE LIKE IT, HE'S HAPPY. IF WE DON'T LIKE IT, HE JUST DOES NOT CARE. IF I'D BEEN MIKE, I'D HAVE CALLED ALL OF MY ALBUMS "TUBULAR BELLS" JUST BECAUSE THE FIRST WAS SO SUCCESSFUL, SO NOW I'D BE DOING TB 20 AND I WOULDN'T F**KING CARE AT ALL IF NO-ONE BUYS IT.
ALL OF THE ABOVE DOES NOT MEAN THAT I CONSIDER TUBULAR BELLS THE BEST WORK BY MIKE. I ONLY SAY THAT IT'S EXTREMELY UNFAIR TO CRITICIZE HIM JUST BECAUSE HE KEEPS INSISTING ON IT.
mad mad mad mad

To Olivier and all the other members: Sorry, this is meant as a personal outburst. I don't expect nor solicit replies to it because I don't want to start another cyberfight. Olivier, if you want, you can remove all of this post.



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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: July 04 2001, 18:04

I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here, as I do understand Mike's reasons for wanting to go back to Tubular Bells (well, partly...I think there's a lot behind it which probably goes quite deep and that not even Mike totally understands).

If, however, Mike keeps releasing albums based on the same theme, doesn't that rather start to suggest that he's running out of ideas? Mike says his best work has the tubular bells name on it - does the fact that he has to go back to the original formula to create good work really show us that it was less of a work of planned genius and more of a fluke that he finds impossible to recreate?
There are plenty of artists who can take a pre-existing work and rehash it to make something 'new' - look at all the people out there doing song remixes. It tends to take far more skill to create something that's completely original and brilliant at the same time, than it is to use someone else's ideas as a platform (indeed, this is why some artists collaborate on projects, so they can use each other as springboards). You would have to have been Mike Oldfield to create the original Tubular Bells, but a lot more people could have created the 'remixed' version we find in Tubular Bells 3.
You could get a bunch of session musicians together and record an exacting cover version of Tubular Bells. It wouldn't have the same feel as Mike's original, but then neither would Mike's re-recording.

So by this constant returning to Tubular Bells, Mike begins to lose a certain amount of status as an artist. The use of 'bells' on albums that are pretty unrelated - like The Millennium Bell - doesn't help (perhaps a record company decision, as was The Best of Tubular Bells). It makes people feel that he's selling on the name, that his music maybe isn't good enough to be able to speak for itself and sell with a different title and cover.

Ok, so I've given my little counter-argument...now what do I think?

Well, Mike doesn't have to prove himself. Like Ugo said, he makes music for himself. Why should he come up with things that are as groundbreaking as Tubular Bells every time he releases an album?
I'm sure a lot, if not all forum members here, have achieved something that was something quite special at one time or another. Often (but perhaps not always), however, nobody is expecting us to reach goals such as that every day of our lives. So should anyone expect to be able to treat Mike differently?
We could say that music is a business, with us as Mike's customers, that the customer is always right and that he's going to get a lot more customers by listening to our requests as demands. That's when you begin to see music as a definite product, the environment that has created modern pop music. Look at most pop acts in the charts. You may not like them, but I would say that their work is of a consistent quality and style (even if, to you at least, that quality and style is rubbish...).

Mike has been going for a long time now, and has been under constant pressure to create. I would have thought that, if he wanted, he'd be quite justified in going into hiding and never releasing another record again. Then watch how many 'best of' compilations would start to appear...
He has, however, kept going and has been trying out new ideas. Some of us may not like the end results and may even feel he could have done better, which is perhaps a source of fan frustration with many things...But he's kept going.

I think that there are times when the ideas can run thin for people (maybe Mike is different though...). Sometimes inspiration can be a while coming, but then suddenly something amazing can happen...I think Mike can still suprise us yet.
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Hillbilly Offline




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Posted: July 05 2001, 06:12

Good post, Korgscrew.
I agree with your arguments completely.
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Pacha Daddy Offline




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Posted: July 05 2001, 11:19

Let me just say:
Chicago Transit Authority; Chicago 2; Chicago 3; Chicago 4; Chicago 5; Chicago 6....etc. etc. ad nauseum, through Chicago XII.

Did this mean Chicago was running out of ideas? Were they too lazy to come up with titles? Or were they establishing an identifying "mark" that tied their albums together?

Food for think. wink
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rosko Offline




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Posted: July 05 2001, 12:51

It seems to me that the reason Mike has done 3 TB albums and TMB is that the general public never seem to take notice when he does anything else. The bell-related albums seem to be the only ones which ever get good publicity, and what's worse is that most people who aren't fans must be thinking "everything he's done is related to TB", not knowing that he's done so many other albums over the years. Therefore I don't blame Mike for any of the sequels, as it is not exactly unreasonable for artist to want his work listened to by more people.

The TB sequels are by no means signs of a lack of creativity either, as they are hardly just re-arangements of each other. TB2 is perhaps the least original since it follows the same sequence of styles and has many melodies which resemble the original. TB3 however just has a few elements of TB here and there but is otherwise an almost entirely original album - and one of Mike's best in recent years. TMB has even less to do with TB than any of the other sequels.

Forgive me for perhaps ranting a bit, but I'm getting pretty sick of all these outbursts and whining about what Mike has chosen to create in recent times. Many of you keep criticising him of not trying anything original, totally ignoring the fact that MVR is a concept unlike anything he's ever done before!

I can understand Mike's reasons for wanting to remake the original TB. He must find it frustrating that the work he is most remembered for isn't everything he wanted it to be. Once he completes the remake, thereby getting that frustration out of his system, it's probable that what he creates afterwards will be just as original and varied as the rest of his work.

When's the last time you had a look at how Mike's work has developed over the years? It is very rare for an artist to create his most popular album among fans (Amarok if I'm not mistaken), not far from 20 years into his career! I'll admit that there have been some low points in the past, but something better has always come along afterwards. Just try to see the bigger picture instead of reacting so violently to anything that you don't approve of.
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Dervish_D Offline




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Posted: July 16 2001, 10:44

My teacher ones replied, when we were talking about success and the pressure to be as good as you have been, that comes out of it:

" I had to BURN all my previous works in order to ever be able to write music again."

I think that Mike, over the time, accepted that nobody could be able to make "Tubular Bells" disappear, burn.
I believe he would have wanted something like that because everyone compares his music with the "so-called" groundbreaking, innovative "Tubular Bells". Poor Mike... frown


BTW, interesting posts from all of you!!
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ChiRho Offline




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Posted: July 20 2001, 18:42

Chicago 21, anyone?

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mirwais57 Offline




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Posted: Feb. 04 2002, 05:22

I thin it should only be called Tubular Bells if it has a mojor Tubular Bell part in it. The Millennium Bell had no Tubular Bells in it at all, which is a bit of a rip-off, considering the title is advertising the bells.

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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Feb. 04 2002, 10:37

I don't have a problem in Naming The Millenium Bell as such,the album was not meant to be Tubular Bells 4,it has nothing to do with the Mike's first album's concept,it was meant to be about the year 2000,if Mike was a new artist in say 1998,and The Millenium Bell was his second album,no-one would say anything about it being another sequel to Tubular Bells,but it was just made to coinside with the year 2000.

As for the re-making of Tubular Bells in 2003,well,it all boils down to one thing,it's upto Mike Oldfield to whatever he wants to make,and as he has just signed a new record deal,then Warner are obviously happy with Mike doing it,and who knows they might market the album a lot better than say Virgin might have done,if he was still with them.
Also,if Mike was very succesful with every album release,then he probably could not have done this re-working,because he might be worried of falling on his behind,if it was a failier,but this has never been a problem with Mike,he has made a few albums that have not sold very well at all,but that did'nt stop him making the music he wants to,don't forget the fans favourite album,Amorak,probably was his least selling album,but then what happend 2 years later,he was back at number 1 in the charts with Tubular Bells 2.
So,my feeling is we should all just trust Mike,and give him the respect and time he desevers to do what he wants,after all,i bet almost everyone who has written in this forum has all his albums,so,nothing it seems is stoping us from buying the man's work!!!.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Feb. 04 2002, 13:28

On the second album thing, I believe that Richard Branson wanted to call Hergest Ridge 'Tubular Bells II'. He wanted to call Amarok that as well...Something tells me that his reasons weren't artistic ones wink
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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Feb. 04 2002, 14:25

Yeah,we all know that Richard Branson is just interested in money,certainly more than he is with Music
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Feb. 15 2002, 06:06

Hey, qjamesfloyd, is that your fault? Your posts are coming up two or three times!!!

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Mike coming back to Tubular Bells. I also agree with rosko, in saying that Mike should want to get his work listened to by more people. For all those of you who critisize him for selling out to 'the public', as I have heard for Tubular Bells III, I would just like to say that if no-one listened to his music, he would just give up, and we wouldn't get any more of that wonderful music that he gives us.

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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Feb. 15 2002, 06:56

No,it's not my fault that my posts keep coming up more than once,i don't know why it's happening,ask Oliver
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TheInfection Offline




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Posted: Feb. 21 2002, 07:10

I don't think that Mike has lost his creativity. I love TB3 as much as the original. He still can make strong themes (Far Above The Clouds for example). I haven't heard The Millenium Bell (the title track nor the album) yet, but the midi sounds great.

Regards,
TheInfection
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mirwais57 Offline




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Posted: May 04 2002, 06:00

sky did albums called sky, sky2, sky3, sky4 and sky5 live.

yes have done albums that start with yes. yessongs, yesterdays, yesteryears, yesstory.

william orbit did strange cargo 1, strage cargo 2, strange cargo 3 and strange cargo hinterland.

i don't know if there are any others apart from Chicago. unless you count classical composers.

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