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Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 20 2004, 15:04 A glimmer of a conversation with Jules on another thread made me wonder if a Dylan thread would attract interest (apart from myself and Jules! ). Here's my view of Dylan in a nutshell: 1. One of the greatest artists of the 20th century. There was no existing box into which he could slot, so he defined his own. 2. It's commonly said that he can't sing. That's like saying Picasso can't draw. He's a truly great singer, once you understand the nature of his art. 3. People tend to argue about whether his greatest period was the early sixties (the acoustic folkie); the mid sixties (the electric pioneer); or the seventies (the anguished soul of Blood on the Tracks, or the gypsy vagabond of the Rolling Thunder Revue). I think his greatest period (as a performer) is from 1995 up to about 2002. Anyone want to shoot darts at any of that? Back to top

Luca Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Oct. 20 2004, 17:09 I think your quite right.. the man has some quite special talents. Hes a world away from Mike but hes still great. I went and saw him 2 years ago in Brighton (where i live) and he was bloody fantastic! Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 21 2004, 05:04 Quote (Luca @ Oct. 20 2004, 17:09) Hes a world away from Mike but hes still great. Indeed, he is a world away.  I find that refreshing though - to listen to music as completely and utterly different as Dylan and Oldfield.  I remember back in 1977 that I loved both the Clash AND Pink Floyd and you just weren't *allowed* to like both in England in 1977.  It was against the rules! It's weird, when people watch TV they don't just watch comedies, or just watch sports, yet people are expected to have tunnel vision when it comes to music.  "What kind of music do you like?"  And then you're supposed to answer with a 'category' of music.  Often the only people who reply "all kinds" are people who put music on in the background while they do the washing up.  I really respect people who say "all kinds" and they really DO love *all kinds* of music. Except techno, obviously, 'cos that sucks.  LOL. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 21 2004, 17:07 Quote (Luca @ Oct. 20 2004, 22:09) I went and saw him 2 years ago in Brighton (where i live) and he was bloody fantastic! I think you saw him just in time. Things took a nosedive last year, and the voice seems now completely shot to pieces. Even so, he can still do occasional magical things: the current re-creation of 'Girl of the North Country' is totally unexpected and superb, for instance. Back to top

Luca Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Oct. 21 2004, 17:09 His voice was much rougher when i saw him than on the records, but he still did a stunning performance and sang perfectly in tune (and he did 2 encores! ) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 21 2004, 17:16 The voice reached a high point in 95, and then again in 2000, when it sounded like fine-grained sandpaper. It was getting rough in 2002 (but as you say he could still do amazing things with it); it was rougher still in 2003, and this year... well, it's pretty hard to listen to without wincing, mostly. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2004, 09:10 Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 21 2004, 17:16) The voice reached a high point in 95, and then again in 2000, when it sounded like fine-grain sandpaper. It was getting rough in 2002 (but as you say he could still do amazing things with it); it was rougher still in 2003, and this year... well, it's pretty hard to listen to without wincing, mostly. Gotta agree with you Alan, sad to say.  I didn't see him here last time because I'd been so disappointed the time before.  I'm OK when he does new songs, but what he did to some of the older hits was painful.  My sig oth was more forgiving than me, but I thought that in future I'd prefer to listen to Bob on record. On another tack, by all accounts the autobiography is stunning. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2004, 10:26 Quote (familyjules @ Oct. 22 2004, 14:10) On another tack, by all accounts the autobiography is stunning. Jules Well, like you, I was really disappointed with very recent Bob performances, and when Chronicles arrived I was in a kind of 'off-Bob' phase. But it completely captivated me - enough to stimulate writing an article about it. And the long section on the making of Oh Mercy sent me back to the CD rack to remind myself what a stunning album it is. Incidentally, just to prove you can never write him off, recently the old devil has come up with the most superb new version of Girl of the North Country - but generally, I'd say the outlook isn't good. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 05:13 Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 22 2004, 10:26) [And the long section on the making of Oh Mercy sent me back to the CD rack to remind myself what a stunning album it is. Incidentally, just to prove you can never write him off, recently the old devil has come up with the most superb new version of Girl of the North Country - but generally, I'd say the outlook isn't good. Oh Mercy is one of those albums that even the out-takes were as strong as the album itself.  Dignity for one.  Do yerself a favour and track down a bootleg of Oh Mercy out-takes! As for the future looking grim....well they can still make him sound OK in the studio.  Love and Theft is testement to that.  So maybe another good album or two to go yet.....? -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 05:22 Quote (familyjules @ Oct. 23 2004, 10:13) they can still make him sound OK in the studio.  Love and Theft is testement to that.  So maybe another good album or two to go yet.....? Well, I hope you're right. But he was still sounding pretty good in live shows around the time of 'Love and Theft' (some of the live performances of Love and Theft songs were amazing). The voice then was nothing like the ragged wreck it is now, alas. There is a rumour of a new album, I believe? Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 05:30 Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 23 2004, 05:22) The voice then was nothing like the ragged wreck it is now, alas. LOL - the thing is that I've been proclaiming Bob's voice to be a ragged wreck beyond repair every year since Live Aid, yet I've still given him the benefit of the doubt when he's come back with a great album. The last time his singing genuinely impressed me was on Slow Train Coming, although I do think Lanois' production brought out certain qualities on both Oh Mercy and Time Out of Mind - but I do largely think this was Lanois' production skills rather than Bob's mastery of his ageing voice. Jules PS  I have no idea about a new album, sorry. -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 05:46 Quote (familyjules @ Oct. 23 2004, 10:30) The last time his singing genuinely impressed me was on Slow Train Coming There are so many Bob Dylans, are there not, and so many ways of listening to him? My personal take is that I feel as though all his life his voice (and his mastery of it, and of the songs) was never quite fulfilling its promise until it achieved its full maturity in 1995, though I know I'm in a minority in that respect. For example, if I were to choose any one performance to represent Dylan's art at its highest peak, it would probably be the 'It's All over now Baby Blue' from Brixton 95. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 05:51 For me the ultimate Bob Dylan performance is on The Last Waltz DVD where he's with The Band doing Forever Young and Baby let me Follow You Down. Just wonderful. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 06:01 Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 23 2004, 05:46) My personal take is that I feel as though all his life his voice (and his mastery of it, and of the songs) was never quite fulfilling its promise until it achieved its full maturity in 1995, though I know I'm in a minority in that respect. I was forgetting one performance that I thought was utterly beguiling.  Have you ever heard the version of Restless Farewell that Bob sang at a concert for Frank Sinatra's birthday in about 1993 or so?  It's so moving that I cannot listen to it without crying.  Bob's voice is finally of the appropriate maturity to sing this song about parting and give it its full emotional gravitas.  An absolutely stunning vocal performance. -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 06:03 Quote (raven4x4x @ Oct. 23 2004, 05:51) For me the ultimate Bob Dylan performance is on The Last Waltz DVD where he's with The Band doing Forever Young and Baby let me Follow You Down. Just wonderful. It sure is!  Bob and The Band really gelled that night.  I think it's possibly the definitive Forever Young and that version of Baby Let Me Follow You Down just cooks! Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 10:15 Quote (raven4x4x @ Oct. 23 2004, 10:51) For me the ultimate Bob Dylan performance is on The Last Waltz DVD where he's with The Band doing Forever Young and Baby let me Follow You Down. Just wonderful. One of the wonderful sources of amazement about Bob Dylan is that (despite what I said above) there is no single peak performance - there is a whole series of peak performances. And you're bang on target there Raven - that performance of Baby Let Me Follow You Down is like nothing there ever was before, or after. Unanswerable. Devastating in its unanswerableness, in fact. Leaves me shaking, every time. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 10:25 Quote (familyjules @ Oct. 23 2004, 11:01) I was forgetting one performance that I thought was utterly beguiling.  Have you ever heard the version of Restless Farewell that Bob sang at a concert for Frank Sinatra's birthday in about 1993 or so?  It's so moving that I cannot listen to it without crying.  Bob's voice is finally of the appropriate maturity to sing this song about parting and give it its full emotional gravitas.  An absolutely stunning vocal performance. Oh yes. Oh yes. OK, on second thoughts, let's shove my '95 Baby Blue aside - I'll be happy to settle for this Restless Farewell instead. Beyond all words; beyond all tears. The definitive Goodbye of all goodbyes. It was in 1995, Jules - the magic year. (I don't believe he would have been capable of it in '93, actually.) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 23 2004, 10:34 Quote (familyjules @ Oct. 23 2004, 11:03) Bob and The Band really gelled that night.  I think it's possibly the definitive Forever Young .... Jules I'm going to be self-indulgent and say that for me and my wife the definitive Forever Young was at Newcastle in 2000. 2000 was another magic year, when the voice was at one of its different peaks, and (I know this is fanciful) he seemed to be singing it for each individual in the audience. It was delivered with a fine-gravelled voice full of compassion and experience, like a benediction from someone who knew; who'd momentarily connected to a transcendent place that only he could see. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Oct. 25 2004, 06:34 Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 23 2004, 10:25) Oh yes. Oh yes. OK, on second thoughts, let's shove my '95 Baby Blue aside - I'll be happy to settle for this Restless Farewell instead. Beyond all words; beyond all tears. The definitive Goodbye of all goodbyes. It was in 1995, Jules - the magic year. (I don't believe he would have been capable of it in '93, actually.) You know, Alan, I get goosebumps just thinking about that performance.  I must dig it out again tonight. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

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