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jhaible Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 23 2004, 07:21 I just discovered Amarok (I have all the older albums, but had given up after Discovery) - and I loved it immediately! No need to aquire a taste for this, I was immediately blown away. I'm taking the health warnings quite seriously, though. This is an album I don't dare to listen to on headphones. I've barely escaped permanent ear damage once in my life, and I don't want to go thru this experience again. As much as I like these impressive stabs, with the volume set to no-damage listening, the rest of the album is just not loud enough. So I'll run the whole album thru a compressor and see if I like the results. I guess it will be tricky to compress it *and* to preserve the effect of the stabs. Must be possible, as it's much overdone, but I need to find the right settings. I'll just try to run it thru my Urei 1176 clone, with high ratio and rather fast attack & release, and record it on CDR. Anybody done something like this before? Any recommendations? Or I could also get the LP version - does anybody know if this is considerably compressed already ? (It should be, especially with that long playing time, shouldn't it?) JH. Back to top

Jammer Group: Members Posts: 643 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 23 2004, 07:45 It would be interesting to hear what a compressed mix would sound like, but as I see it Amarok is a perfect piece of art and cannot be changed in any way. If you compress something with unnatural peaks in volume like this there might be lots of artifacts introduced. Since it's possible to compress drums (though I haven't been able to do so succesfully) you might get results with short attack times I've listened to it loudly through headphones hundreds of times. I find it impossible not to during the great climaxes. My ears are OK after all this time. What was that you said? Back to top

jhaible Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 23 2004, 08:40 Quote (Jammer @ June 23 2004, 07:45) I've listened to it loudly through headphones hundreds of times. I find it impossible not to during the great climaxes. My ears are OK after all this time. What was that you said? I don't want to argue. I was just talking about _my_ ears, and my safety. (;->) Although, your listening to abrupt bursts of high volume for 500 times without problems will not prevent you from hearing loss or tinnitus after #501. Or #576. The problem is you'll never know until its too late. A piece of art, as it is - certainly! And so is the LP version, even when (if) it's mastered with less dynamics. (Is it ?) What really makes me cautious is that these high dynamics were intentially used to annoy (if not harm) a certain person who was expected to turn up the volume after the quiet beginning. Among other things, I don't want this to happen to my wife or my child when I leave the CD in the player. And it's more than just an abrupt level jump: The stabs also have much higher harmonic contents than much of the embedding music. More danger to the ear. JH. (just looking for a way to enjoy this great piece of music) Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 23 2004, 08:48 If you're thinking of listening to it on headphones, the snide side of my brain says "well, turn down the volume", because well, that's what I do when I listen to Amarok on roadtrips. God knows I was frightened by these stabs once, when I was expecting a murmuring guitar on the wrong place. At this day, I'd never commit this mistake in my sleep again. But I'm just kidding. I know what you mean. But if you were to ask my frank opinion, I'd say that dynamic compression is EVIL, EVIL, EVIL, especially on a finished piece of music. I say that because I have Vapor Trails in my collection, the prime example of an album mercilessly butchered by compression. A possible solution would be to compress ONLY those segments where the stabs come in. Since they're so easy to see (they're MUCH louder than anything else), you can "brush them away" and leave the rest of the piece intact - since the stabs have the same level of volume as the very end of the album, for example, and compressing the finale should be largely unpleasant. Vapor-Trailising Amarok could be the ultimate musical crime, in my opinion - second only to Limp Bizkit's "Behind Blue Eyes" cover. But I understand your concern, and I hope you find the best solution. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

jhaible Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 23 2004, 19:33 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 23 2004, 08:48) A possible solution would be to compress ONLY those segments where the stabs come in. Since they're so easy to see (they're MUCH louder than anything else), you can "brush them away" and leave the rest of the piece intact - since the stabs have the same level of volume as the very end of the album, for example, and compressing the finale should be largely unpleasant. I did it. (;->) Right now, I'm copying the result from DAT to CDR. I've set the compression ratio on the 1176 clone to 20 - this is more like peak limiting than compression - and the threshold just below the level of the stabs. Very fast time constants - 20us attack and 50ms decay. If there is any harmonic distortion from this, the stabs' high harmonic content masks it very well. The result doesn't sound much over-compressed - it sounds like Oldfields mainstream albums QE2 or Platinum. I have run the finale thru the same setting. Can't say yet how harmful or not harmful it is; needs close listening to decide. Close listening at a decent volume is _possible_ for my now, at least! JH. Back to top

Ambient Fish Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 25 2004, 11:49 Jhaible, you could try cupping your hands over your ears during the loud passages save you a lot of trouble trying to compress the uncompressable. I agree with Mustapha on this one, you would not look at the Mona Lisa through coloured filters nor would you remove the thees and thous from Shakespear so thou should refrain from compressing the one true sound. Back to top

jhaible Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 25 2004, 12:23 Quote (Ambient Fish @ June 25 2004, 11:49) Jhaible, you could try cupping your hands over your ears during the loud passages save you a lot of trouble trying to compress the uncompressable. I agree with Mustapha on this one, you would not look at the Mona Lisa through coloured filters nor would you remove the thees and thous from Shakespear so thou should refrain from compressing the one true sound. LOL. Thou areth being funny. Actually, the image of a person shoving his hands rapidly in and out of the space between his headphones and his ears in rapid succession is quite hilarious. (;->) But seriously: I have just recently discovered this great album, I'm playing it repeatedly in the car and on phones for some days now, and I'm happy that I have peak-limited it the way I did. You don't have to do it yourself - I'm not even offering copies (;->) - I just thought I'd pass this on, compressor setting data included, so if anybody is interested he can do the same. After some listen, I must say it turned out much better than I had expected, and I like it a lot. If I ever want to scare somebody (best not somebody driving my car), I can still use the original version. (;->) JH. Back to top

Ambient Fish Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: June 2004 Posted: June 25 2004, 12:36 Well met Jhaible, it's funny really I bought the album in Luxembourg last year on a whim and didn't realise what a gem I had acquired until I brought it home in late October and put it in my Hi Fi system at home, I had the system set up to my normal reference listening position, cue Amarok, cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war. I was stunned by the sheer virtuosity of the piece, I must have listened to it at high volume with my complete attention over 50 times now and the attraction has not even begun to wear off. I doubt it ever will, I was just thinking that the very wide dynamics of the recording contribute in large part to it's impact, this is a performance which we are lucky enough to be able to listen to any time we choose, I appreciate your wishing to protect your ears, however, I would try all avenues (like stand well back from the speakers) in an effort to avoid compressing this masterpiece Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Oct. 14 2021, 08:29 For me, Amarok is meant to be played loud, even the 'stabs' I turn it up loud in the car, and at home, although less so when the neighbours are home. My ears are still good, I have had regular check ups. Back to top

amaroks Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: Feb. 2006 Posted: Oct. 15 2021, 16:46 Although I love all of Mike's albums, if I had to save one in a fire it would be this one. For me it typifies everything about his unique talent. Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Oct. 16 2021, 02:38 I would agree with that, it is so dense and varied that I never tire of it. Back to top

ShakC Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: Feb. 2022 Posted: Feb. 04 2022, 09:37 My favourite. I've nearly always listened to it on cassette, split in two parts. Must be due for a vinyl reissue one of these days. A while ago I went through a rip of my CD and it works fine split into four fairly equal parts, which would make it a much better sounding LP than the original pressing. Back to top

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