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Old Mikefield Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: June 2006 Posted: June 25 2006, 00:05 Does anyone know exactly where the law stands on possible copyright issues pertaining to fans cover tracks/remixes etc? Is it a simple case of it'sok if its just for personal listening, but not if it for public broadcast and/or to make money off it? Just curious -------------- Live each day as if it were your last, for one day you're sure to be right. My Music Projects > HTTP://www.morehuman-thanhuman.com Back to top

BOOsTER Group: Musicians Posts: 1024 Joined: Jan. 2003 Posted: June 26 2006, 14:46 did anyone of teh cover-makers get in jail for it? ...you see? -------------- http://www.djbooster.net Back to top

amazarak Group: Members Posts: 284 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: June 27 2006, 14:18 It is not a good reason to do something that everyone else does it. I think that the major factor here is why do You make the cover: to make money? - You're bad guy... to proove Yourself You're able to make it? - well, You seem not to be as bad as the first one. I think the situation is identical as with hackers and crackers in computer systems security - formally hackers brake the law, but do not make any harm (in opposite to crackers). amazarak -------------- Just hold your heading true Got to get your finest out Back to top

Old Mikefield Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: June 2006 Posted: June 27 2006, 21:17 Quote (BOOsTER @ June 26 2006, 14:46) did anyone of teh cover-makers get in jail for it? ...you see? no, no ones gone to jail for it, but has anyone had their ass sued off for breach of copyright? Hell yes. See, that's why im asking. -------------- Live each day as if it were your last, for one day you're sure to be right. My Music Projects > HTTP://www.morehuman-thanhuman.com Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: June 27 2006, 21:43 Quote (amazarak @ June 27 2006, 14:18) It is not a good reason to do something that everyone else does it. I think that the major factor here is why do You make the cover: to make money? - You're bad guy... to proove Yourself You're able to make it? - well, You seem not to be as bad as the first one. I think the situation is identical as with hackers and crackers in computer systems security - formally hackers brake the law, but do not make any harm (in opposite to crackers). amazarak Hackers are not "in opposition" to crackers. The term "hacker" means good hackers, bad hackers, crackers, and a lot of other things. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

BOOsTER Group: Musicians Posts: 1024 Joined: Jan. 2003 Posted: June 29 2006, 05:11 Quote (Old Mikefield @ June 28 2006, 03:17) Quote (BOOsTER @ June 26 2006, 14:46) did anyone of teh cover-makers get in jail for it? ...you see? no, no ones gone to jail for it, but has anyone had their ass sued off for breach of copyright? Hell yes. See, that's why im asking. whatever, I was part of the Finale Cover project and...did Mike sue us? No, he even said how he enjoyed it...so? I think making covers for free is not bad at all...and If i was in place of the artist I would be glad someone makes promotion to the original work by making the cover. Actually if you heard a great cover of an MO song, wouldn't you go to buy it? I would.. -------------- http://www.djbooster.net Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: June 29 2006, 06:54 Quote (BOOsTER @ June 29 2006, 11:11) Actually if you heard a great cover of an MO song, wouldn't you go to buy it? I would, but others could just get the covers for free... Well, or just download the original from Internet... I don't know about other countries, but in spanish TV there are a lot of mobile songs advertisements, and 90% are covers. They're making money for that, and nothing seems to happen. Or maybe they've paid the autor for that? Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: June 29 2006, 08:21 In the US, use of someone's music in an advertisement (including for a mobile phone) is always done such that the copyright-holder of the music gets paid (or at least permission is taken care of). It is probably this way in Spain. The most famous recent example of a lawsuit for this not happening is found in this link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/11/apple_settles_with_eminem/ (Eminem suing Apple over use of his music in an iPod ad). A lot of money passes to the artists this way. There is a US tv show called "Cold Case". A significant part of its budget is paying the licensed composers/copyright holders for the snippets of retro music they use in the soundtrack. Likewise, the GM auto company had a commercial compaign for many years called "Like a Rock", in which they used several seconds of a Bob Seger song. The bass guitarist who played on the song has earned a living just from the royalties for GM's use of the song. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Morti Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: April 2006 Posted: Nov. 23 2006, 21:37 I've been reading up on this a fair bit. Apparently what you need to release a cover is a mechanical license which is costed based on how many copies you produce and how much you want to charge. If you charge nothing you still need a license and I think it still costs but because you're not making money you don't need to pay royalties. Putting tracks up for download is an interesting problem because you have to specify how many copies you'll be producing, in the case of a download it's unlimited. The license I believe is done based on how many downloads will be made of the track (starting at 2500 I think) but of course you have no idea how many people will find and download the song. http://www.cleverjoe.com/music_copyright_law.html is an interesting read if you want to learn more about this subject. I'm still trying to find out if I can legally release a cover album I did a while back and nobody seems to know. The issues not covered much seem to be releasing it for free and releasing it as a download. I asked a UK company that deals with licensing about this and they seemed to misunderstand and send me what appeared to be the sort of license I'd need to run a rip-off of iTunes. Very strange. My feeling is that cover versions should be made and should be given away for free without any need for licensing and such, but then ultimately the content of covers will still be the intellectual copyright of the writer/composer/whatever and they should be credited somehow. If there's no money being made I don't see why the initial composer wouldn't be quite happy with a little note alongside the recording saying "this is a cover of blah by blah, buy the original because it's good" but that's sadly not the way the world works. It's also record companies rather than songwriters for the most part who own the copyright and they do tend to be moneygrabbing expletives. Having said all that, I remember reading somewhere that it's okay as long as the record company doesn't come after you, so I'm not really entirely sure. If anyone has any further knowledge on the subject I'd really appreciate it. -------------- The ear worm became the synonym for the commercial side of MIKE OLDFIELD. Back to top

Thea Cochrane Group: Musicians Posts: 445 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Mar. 23 2007, 20:17 Copyright is so country-specific that it can be quite tricky. From my understanding of it if you record a cover of someone else's song that's allowed, it's the bit when you start making money by selling it that publishing companies come after you. If you perform a cover live you should pay a royalty based on the size of audience to the publishers of the original work - it's easy to find out who that is, their name and address will likely be on the album sleeve or sheet music. If you sell an album with a cover on it then a percentage of the profits from the sales go to the publisher of the original song (it ends up being a percentage of what would go to the songwriter and not direct revenue from net sales but this all gets really complicated). If you've done an album of nothing but covers and want to release it then chances are that unless you can expect some many sales you are going to lose money through paying all those royalties and production costs. You also permission to sell it in the first place. If the music publisher and/or the original writer/s don't like your cover very much then they can simply stop you selling it. I forget the name of the technicality but basically if you do a cover so bad that people might be put off the original... well, you get the idea. None of that explains the cover of "Solsbury Hill" by Erasure or Bono's version of "Hallelujah." For downloads of covers made by fans - like many of the things here - the likelihood is that not many people (relatively speaking) will be downloading it, and most of those people will already own the original. It's probably not worth going after everyone who uploads a cover on to youtube or whatever, even if they are awful. I'm coming at this from a UK-centric background where if you want to find out more I'd contact the PRS for information about performing covers in public and the MCPS for recordings of covers (look them up on Google). Back to top

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