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Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 18 2000, 08:31 Hi y'all. This is rather about 'other music' than 'other musicians'... but anyway... While discussing about Amarok (I don't remember exactly where), I wrote that Amarok is the longest unbroken piece in the whole history of music. [By "unbroken" I mean without any silent breaks - long enough as to account for separate CD tracks.] That was a rather strong & bold statement...I fully realized its boldness after re-reading it (even if I didn't feel like altering it), and started having some doubts. So I asked some friends of mine, who are connoisseurs of classical music, if they knew any piece that was longer than 60'02'' [04'' on some players - the running length of Amarok ]. But they missed the whole point. One of them said: Wagner's Twilight Of The Gods is 5 hours. Yes, I said, all of Wagner's operas are 4-5 hours, but they are made up by a huge number of separate pieces/tracks. And they don't even fit in one CD [complete editions of 'em need at least 4 CD's... ]. Another friend told me about Richard Strauss' symphonic poems (like Also Sprach Zarathustra) or some of Mahler's symphonic movements being longer that one hour, but I don't believe this . So, I have a question for you all, if you've been reading this far : Did Mike REALLY reach a Guinness length with Amarok? Or do you know about the existence, in recorded form, of some longer unbroken piece (of any kind of music)? Thanx to all. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Nov. 19 2000, 12:28 I've found one! John Cage's 'Roaratorio - An Irish Circus over Finnegan's Wake' is 60'9'' as stated on the cover, while the player even says 60'19''. And it, too, is full of Irish music! You can find it on the CD, Wergo WER 6303-2 286 303-2. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 19 2000, 15:22 Nice one, Archangel!! Just a couple of questions...even if I won't get that CD because I don't like Cage... 1) Is there one single track on the CD? If there are two or more (however linked they are...) it doesn't count...sorry. 2) Is it more or less recent than Amarok (1990)? If it's more recent, then Mike HAD reached a Guinness length before Roaratorio came out!! Thanx. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Nov. 19 2000, 21:25 1) Yes, it's really just one track that lasts for 60'19'', which is the actual Roaratorio, plus another one, a bonus track, so to speak, an excerpt from 'Writing for the Second Time Through Finnegan's Wake', which lasts for 14'14''. So it definitely counts. There is no interruption whatsoever in the first track, I'd even go as far as saying it's much more uninterrupted than Amarok! 2) The first performance was in '79, but it can't have been recorded then, as CDs weren't around of course. This CD was issued in '94, but there might be an earlier recording of this work - I don't know about that. I guess not, though. (That would mean Mike won! ) Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Nov. 21 2000, 19:44 This is quite an interesting question (ok, so what got me interestied to start with was mention of the word guinness...unfortunately we're talking guinness book of records ). See, I believe there are some composers who have created works that go uninterrupted for even longer than 60:19 (I'm thinking sort of 72 minute length...). I can't name anyone right now, but that might not matter (considering where my argument is going...). See, what I'm thinking of are the people who play these long improvised pieces. Now yes, they may be longer than Amarok or anything else, but...some of those things only use 2 chords throughout the whole piece (and I don't mean in the same way that people say Incantations is based around 1 chord...). So, this is one of those 'hypothetical' questions really: If such a piece existed, would we as fans of Mike's compositional talents, be happy to say "Yes, this piece of music is longer", or would we say "they might have filled out more space but...that doesn't count - it's only 2 chords"? Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Nov. 21 2000, 21:46 I'd say it doesn't matter at all. I mean it's really unimportant how long a piece is. There are great pieces that only last a few seconds. Webern's whole output together is only slightly longer than three hours, and he's considered one of the very most important contributers to modern music (don't think I'm an avantgarde freak just because I talk about Cage and Webern!). I mean, really, we're just discussing this for the fun of it. Aren't we, Ugo? Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 22 2000, 08:27 Yes, this is just for fun. After all my purpose in starting this topic was proving the falseness of my bold statement. I'm not too much into avantgarde or things like that, so if somebody is telling me that there are pieces, in that field, that are much longer than Amarok...well...thanx to all of them!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Nov. 22 2000, 18:36 If this is just for fun, can we talk about Guinness instead? (ok, so there's not much to talk about...but still...). Perhaps if Amarok isn't a record length, we can persuade Mike to write something that is (Hmm...what have I said before about fans demanding things of Mike just because they can't do it themselves?... ) Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 22 2000, 19:03 I don't think Mike will ever beat Cage's (or anyone else's) record. Amarok was an unique and unrepeatable piece of music, the crowning achievement of a great musician's career and so very unlikely to be surpassed (in any way) by the same musician who created it. And in fact he didn't, in the 10 years since... But maybe in the year 2010, 20 years after Amarok, CD capacity will grow indefinitely and Mike will create a 100-minute piece...who knows? Que serà, serà. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 22 2000, 19:06 ...of course, the above will depend on whether CDs will still exist in 2010!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Pacha Daddy Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: Sep. 2000 Posted: Nov. 29 2000, 09:05 A Guiness length for me is about six minutes, but I'm a fast drinker... Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Nov. 29 2000, 19:06 Well, if you see it that way, I'm sure Mike has reached a Guinness length several times over... Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 29 2000, 19:40 !!!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

GMOVJ Group: Members Posts: 273 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Nov. 30 2000, 03:46 too ! -------------- Cheers, GMOVJ [URL=http://tubular.fodplanet.com]http://tubular.fodplanet.com[/URL] - The french speaking mailing list Back to top

100-252 Unregistered Posted: Dec. 04 2000, 13:03 I'm a Mike oldfield fan and a fan of electronic music. I play it myself too. I have some CD of an author name Klaus Schulze. A German composer. In one of it's newest album (a double album), In Blue (1994), The First Piece, Into the Blue is 78:25 length, and it fit on one CD. He play it with Manuel gottsching from the former Ashra Tempel. You can see his discography which contain more than 1 70 minutes length piece. http://www.klaus-schulze.com/ Back to top

Delfín Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: Nov. 2000 Posted: Feb. 02 2001, 16:42 O.K. Ugo, about your question... I don´t know about Mike´s private parts. AKWAWAWA JFJF MBLFJAK XDDDDDDDD Oh, and excusa me per que io sono locco!! Delfín -------------- The most precious thing I possess, is knowing the answer's yes Back to top

ChiRho Group: Members Posts: 195 Joined: Feb. 2001 Posted: Mar. 16 2001, 10:42 Perhaps I should say that a complete piece of music should incorporate at least 2 ideas and 3 themes. The distinction between themes and ideas is drawn as follows: An idea is a musical concept A theme is an actual stretch of music To put this into context, Sentinel is clearly not identical to the opening of TB, but they are extremely similar (different themes, same idea) This may not be standard, but it is what I shall use in this post. OK? So a complete piece of music generally must have at least two themes, but for this a larger number is required, since an hour of the same idea would just drive you so there should be at least 3 ideas and 4 themes (that means that one idea has been expressed in two themes). As a guide (from 'The Amarok Analysis' featured on this very site), Amarok has 234 distinct changes, encompassing about 25 themes expressing at least 8 ideas, plus a number of supplementary concepts which don't really constitute a theme, and do not really fall under an idea. Anyone have any idea about how this relates in other long (non-Wagnerian) musical pieces? Sorry if this means that you have to sit down and analyse these pieces in a similar manner to The Amarok Analysis, and if it makes you look stupid, lose sleep and eventually look a bit with your eyes fit to explode, but it is all in the inerest of fun. PS Wagner's complete Ring of 4 opera is performed at a purpose-built concert hall regularly once every 4-10 years (I can't remember which), and the full performance takes about 6 days to complete I think -------------- <P>Mr. ChiRho Email to chirho@mine.nu.almost (guess what drops) Visit ChiRho Network Central [URL=http://www.chirho.i12.com/]http://www.chirho.mine.nu/[/URL] Check the forums (topic suggestions still welcome[URL=http://forum.chirho.mine.nu/]http://forum.chirho.mine.nu/[/URL] Back to top

Thomas Andersson Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: Feb. 2001 Posted: Mar. 16 2001, 11:48 Brian Eno released an album called "Thursday Afternoon" in the middle of the eighties, and it's around 61 minutes I think. Pure ambient music. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Mar. 16 2001, 18:25 Is that album one track, Thomas? -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Mar. 16 2001, 18:51 ChiRo, the 'Ring' takes four evenings. These are, roughly, the playing times of the individual 'parts': - Das Rheingold: approx. 2 1/2 hours - Die Walküre - Siegfried - Götterdämmerung: approx. 4 hours each (If I'm not mistaken - I'm not an expert...) Back to top

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