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Yuval Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 203 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 08:31 Well, I came up with that strange theory first of all, because I tend to have strange theroies, but also because I havent seen previous posts about that and it makes alot of sense to me. The virgin period was obviously very difficult for him, yet best albums came at that time. Amarok & TBII would probably make the best proofs . A moument before he puts the virgin burdon off, he writes those two great pieces. Then the years of freedom... we get albums most of us like less, so to speak, especially TBIII - he must have had a great time and didnt suffer much living in Ibiza, if my theory is right. I wonder if anyone else thinks it makes sense or do I maintain my iregular reputation? Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 09:14 In fact, he said the time he spent in Ibiza was the worst since his teenage days. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: April 17 2005, 09:14 Hmm. It can at least be said that most people seem to prefer the music of the 'good old days' of restriction. Perhaps that's what worked best at the time, because there was no choice other than to accept the cage - and when you do, it can sometimes act as a focus for performing in a certain way - like your situation is the corrective lens that focuses an image into a particular form. Now that he's free of that restriction, or rather, has redefined the cage, there has to be an adjustment period - but he should settle and become more aquainted with the freedom he now enjoys. Whether or not he starts producing music people like after he has finished adjusting (if indeed he hasn't already) is another matter. I for one believe Mike produces music that he wants to, does it because he enjoys making music - not music everyone wants to listen to, but music he wants to make. If people happen to like that, then that's just a bonus. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Yuval Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 203 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 09:45 very interesting arron Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 17 2005, 10:23 In the early 1970s, Mike obviously had very intense, negative feelings inside him, which he was able to channel creatively and use to drive his music-making, as a way of coping. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to see the mental suffering as being a direct path to the music, though. Unless absolutely all the conditions are the same as they were in the 1970s (and they're not - Mike is older, and he's found new ways of coping, and there are of course many other things which have changed), Mike falling into a depressed state is more likely to result in the opposite of what happened then - either he wouldn't come out with any music at all, or he wouldn't have the energy to properly execute the ideas which he did have. That could, at best, lead to albums of work which have grains of good ideas in, but which aren't fully realised, with him not having been able to keep developing the ideas as much as would really have been ideal. It's a bit like the approach of "I write better after I've had a few drinks". That's a good way to become an alcoholic (unless it's nothing more than a weak lemon drink, of course), but it's not really a terribly good way to assist creativity. There will always come a time when it doesn't work, and things can spiral badly, if that's not handled right (I mean to say, nothing wrong with having a beer or whatever before starting work, if the routine helps, just if it doesn't work, the approach shouldn't be to have another - the creativity can turn on independently of the beer, and if it's not turning on, there's another reason for that happening). I think what's necessary is that he finds ways of gaining creative energy, and channeling that into his work - hoping it'll simply be turned on by one particular set of conditions is, I feel, not the way to get there. Back to top

BOOsTER Group: Musicians Posts: 1024 Joined: Jan. 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 14:58 I am not sure but I feel that young people usually work better when they feel depressed... I mean...if you check Ommadawn 2003 my cover version of it...I think I never done better...never... Many times I thought of recording again, but hey it's such a beast and I think I can't give it anything new... Also my new tunes were created under a big depression (Uncle died, court with my dad and so on) they are currently on the desk of a label... I believe that depressed artist can work better as long as he has power to gain the depression to the creativity... P.S.: That I'm using myself as example is not that I think being a master, but I know myself best. -------------- http://www.djbooster.net Back to top

Tati The Sentinel Group: Members Posts: 3360 Joined: Feb. 2002 Posted: April 17 2005, 15:31 Of course that your current state of mind is a big influence on the music you create.We all know that Mike's first four are favorites among the fanbase and many of you would love to see Mike composing another album like those again...but now he's more relaxed,in another state of mind,new ideas,some stuff can't happen twice in your life... I don't wanna see Mike in bad times again to create an album that has the magic of the first four,please,please,no! I wanna see him happy,in high spirits and  confortably on his skin and creating music that reflect what's on his mind at the moment.That's what I do care. -------------- "But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014 "I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011 Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 15:46 I don't think it's about the suffering, but more about the pressure. In the Virgin years, maybe the pressure by the label made Mike pressure himself to keep coming up with better stuff every time and work harder till perfection. I may be speculating here, but after the Virgin contract ended, he gained more liberty, and became more easily impressed with himself and his own output. That would explain why, to me, Voyager and Guitars sound so lazy and easy sounding. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

BOOsTER Group: Musicians Posts: 1024 Joined: Jan. 2003 Posted: April 17 2005, 15:47 Quote (Tati The Sentinel @ April 17 2005, 21:31) I don't wanna see Mike in bad times again to create an album that has the magic of the first four,please,please,no! I wanna see him happy,in high spirits and  confortably on his skin and creating music that reflect what's on his mind at the moment.That's what I do care. same here...I just more analyzed the fact that an artist works better when he's depressed..the music has different depth...anyway who can stand those blah uhh oohhh happy hardcore tunes? -------------- http://www.djbooster.net Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 17 2005, 16:05 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 17 2005, 20:46) after the Virgin contract ended, he gained more liberty, and became more easily impressed with himself and his own output. That would explain why, to me, Voyager and Guitars sound so lazy and easy sounding. I think that's highly debatable. You could just as easily dismiss some of the songs on those 80s albums as 'lazy' if you didn't like them much. On the other side of the equation, post-Virgin, we have to set the major works, TSODE and TB2, and the invention of a new art form (MVR). These are not the products of a lazy artist! In particular, Music VR is the product of a man who is trying (with considerable persistence and, in my view, wonderful success) to stretch his art as far as it can possibly go. That 'becoming more easily impressed with himself' notion is merely the result (in my view) of a piece of dodgy amateur psychology on your part, Sir M. I think it's likely that Mike continues to suffer in certain ways that we can never know about. You don't change the essence of your being, just by changing record companies. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: April 17 2005, 16:07 Well, my previous post was ann attempt to drop a bit of a hint, which kind of ties in with what Alan says. There is more than one interpretation of every situation. Trust me though, depression can be one of the most destructive things to an artist - it's not at all guaranteed that he/she will work better as a result. Working well as an artist is about harnessing feelings and directing them into the art (at least partly - there have been pages and pages written by many authors on motivational theory, and it's not something that can be summed up into a single formula. Many factors contribute to an artist's desire to create good art, and desire to move forwards). Not so sure about pressure either. It has to be of the right kind, and the artist has to be in a state to handle it. Again, it can be an incredibly destructive thing if he/she isn't (at best leading to highly unimaginitive works, as the artist falls back on things which he/she knows will work in an attempt to get the job done, rather than really exploring new ideas). A total lack of pressure can also be bad, though, leading to a sense of unimportance. Still, internal pressure within Mike led to Tubular Bells, and Ommadawn (Hergest Ridge, it could be argued, was more the result of record company pressure, though as with all three, it could certainly be seen as a combination of internal and external pressure), created as ways of dealing with his feelings at the time. Earth Moving was, on the other hand, the result of external pressure... It's an extremely complex issue. It's certainly true to say that Mike's mental state at the time, combined with the other factors present, is what led to his early albums being the way they were (indeed, it's what leads to all of his albums being the way they are), but I don't think it's true to say that simply making him depressed, and even applying the same kinds of demands made of him in the 70s, would lead to the same kind of work coming out of him again. I think he'd be more likely to give up and produce nothing. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 17 2005, 16:18 Wise words by Korgscrew, there. Although a good deal of the world's greatest art has been produced by souls who have experienced anguish of one kind or another (and I certainly hear anguish at the end of Ommadawn1), I doubt that much has been produced by those suffering from depression. Depression is sickeningly demotivating, whenever and whyever it strikes. Back to top

Ratty Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: Jan. 2005 Posted: April 17 2005, 17:51 Im not sure if it is a case of Mike performing better when he suffers, but his emotions certainly influence his music. Its hard to define Mikes emotional state of mind with TB. However look at Hergest Ridge, his reclusive, withdrawn state was reflected in this piece, he had suffered so much from the success of TB, the press, adulation, requests for concerts etc...that he became a hermit almost, shacked up in some remote hideaway. There is almost a passive element running through this album. Now take Ommadawn, a case of im not gonna let the b*****ds grind me down. You can sense his pent up aggression in the energy through out. Also to me he assembled a massive array of suplimentary artistes on this album as if to say sod you lot (press) im no recluse, look at my friends and peers. I always thought Mike felt he had to prove a point to the media through his music, as if he has been sticking two fingers upto them from day one. I certainly think Mike felt under the most pressure during those first three albums. Look at the result though...so yes, in answer to the question, he definately produced his best work under pressure (when he suffers).       -------------- Far away across the field The tolling of the iron bell Calls the faithful to their knees To hear the softly spoken magic spells Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: April 18 2005, 06:06 Quote (Alan D @ April 17 2005, 21:18) Wise words by Korgscrew, there. Although a good deal of the world's greatest art has been produced by souls who have experienced anguish of one kind or another (and I certainly hear anguish at the end of Ommadawn1), I doubt that much has been produced by those suffering from depression. Depression is sickeningly demotivating, whenever and whyever it strikes. I agree Alan,  I've been there.  Depression can be so demotivating, and often mistaken for laziness   . I don't know the intensity of Mike's suffering, around the Tubular Bells, Hergest Ridge, Ommadawn period, but he has been able to channel his anger and  pain into something positive, that's the music   .  So many people turn to alcohol or hard drugs, but long term this leads to more negativity, and depression. TB HR and Ommadawn, do fall within my top six of Mike's albums, but I do NOT like to see anyone suffer for their art.  I also like Mike's albums from TB2 onwards, especially TSODE and TB3.  I am PLEASED that Mike has found happiness . -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: April 18 2005, 06:22 Quote (Tati The Sentinel @ April 17 2005, 20:31) I don't wanna see Mike in bad times again to create an album that has the magic of the first four,please,please,no! I wanna see him happy,in high spirits and  confortably on his skin and creating music that reflect what's on his mind at the moment.That's what I do care. I couldn't work out how to quote both Tati and Alan in my previous post. I agree, Tati.  I to would hate to see Mike go through bad times again to produce another epic like Ommadawn (My personal favourite of Mike's albums). -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

c_haese Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: April 18 2005, 09:12 Quote (Yuval @ April 17 2005, 08:31) Amarok & TBII would probably make the best proofs . A moument before he puts the virgin burdon off, he writes those two great pieces. Nobody else has jumped on this, so maybe this is a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway. Tubular Bells II is not published by Virgin. Is there evidence that he wrote it while he was still at Virgin? -Carsten Back to top

Yuval Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 203 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: April 18 2005, 10:19 Quote (c_haese @ April 18 2005, 11:12) Quote (Yuval @ April 17 2005, 08:31) Amarok & TBII would probably make the best proofs . A moument before he puts the virgin burdon off, he writes those two great pieces. Nobody else has jumped on this, so maybe this is a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway. Tubular Bells II is not published by Virgin. Is there evidence that he wrote it while he was still at Virgin? -Carsten im probably the last person to answer that. but as far as I know, the idea started in the virgin period. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 18 2005, 19:35 A review in a website I've contributed to (some lyrics) states that Eric Clapton wrote (some of) his best things when he suffered - and that his latest album doesn't sound as good as 'Layla' (for example) because now he's got nothing to be worried or angry or suffering about - he's satisfied. I tend to agree. With Mike, I think pressure is definitely a spur, if not a primary motivation. AFAIK, in his youth, music was something like an outpour valve for him, a way to escape from a rather painful family situation. Then, as soon as that motivation was gone [Exegesis, etc.], he started making music because he liked it. Not necessarily everything he produced after Exegesis was bad - take the FMO album, for example. But then we have an album like TBIII, which sounds very good to me, but (at least in some parts) also very angry: Mike's suffering resulted in good music once again. I just wonder what was making him so angry down there in Ibiza. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: April 20 2005, 20:04 I would have thought that preassure from a record company would cause an artist to record and release their album as quickly as possable. Excessive preassure, or the wrong kind of preassure could certainly cause an artist to relent and release an album they aren't totally happy with. As for suffering, I really don't know. To write and play music with feeling, you probably have to have those feelings yourself, but on the other hand feeling bad would surely tend to put you off making music. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Yuval Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 203 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: April 21 2005, 02:41 let me try to divert the issue abit guys Maybe its not the pressure, but what I call "repressed violence" Did it ever happen to you that you watched mike playing and his face looked as if he was about to hit someone? need reference? Knebworth ommadawn finale. Now I've noticed that the more "violent" he gets, vibrating that poor helpless guitar string, the faster my heart beats responding to it's sound. Now I project from this vibrating note production to a bigger picture, a production of an album. Maybe it works the same for him. I believe in Amarok his anger is quite heard through the quality of the playing and the composition. the energy... difficult to explain in words, but I do hear something on Amarok that reminds me alot of the first 3 albums, and im not talking about Jabula.:) Dont get me wrong, I just love the oldfield tracks which are "violence free". all the childish tunes... the heavenly parts from the virgin period... but I also believe those are born next to that repressed anger he used to have. the other side of the same coin if you will. I miss it, but as all of you guys, I dont wish him anger or anything near that. I do pray though, he would have one of those "I have to prove to the world Im a genius" panic attacks Back to top

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