Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Don Quixote, Advice needed!!!!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ginger Daddy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: April 2002
Posted: Mar. 22 2010, 16:59

Hi,

I've been working on a track for a long time that will integrate various sample libraries with live piano and electric guitar.

Unfortunately I think I might have bitten off more than I can chew and I really really think I need some constructive criticism.

The track is 10 minutes long (fair warning!;) and starts off with solo piano before building into an orchestral section. The main theme that the piano starts with is repeated in the middle but transposed into a different harmony.

I've strained my laptop while recording it so there are some occasional pops and clicks which will be sorted when I do my final version (even if I have to bounce every track individually).

You can hear it at:

http://purplerhapsody.co.uk/blog/ (first blog post has the SoundCloud player)

or

http://soundcloud.com/purplerhapsody/quixote-tilting-at-windmills

Thanks in advance,
Terry.


--------------
http://purplerhapsody.co.uk - no words, just emotions
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
wiga Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sep. 2008
Posted: Mar. 23 2010, 04:58

Hi Ginger Daddy

I hear this like a soundtrack, and the start could be the opening credits to a love story. Beautiful piano, particularly nice piece in the middle and also the spanish guitar.

At 1.50 and 5.30 what's going on with the sound, it seems to go off on a tangent, muffled loud, and far away - like it disconnects?


--------------
Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
Back to top
Profile PM 
smillsoid Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 548
Joined: Dec. 2008
Posted: Mar. 23 2010, 18:12

I like it a lot.  Must agree about the sound becoming distorted - but I bet you can easily fix this?

--------------
http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
ex member 892 Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 827
Joined: July 2008
Posted: Mar. 23 2010, 19:20

Yeah, I like it really well. Nice mixing of styles - which I gather was your intention.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Ginger Daddy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: April 2002
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 03:29

Thanks for the positive comments!

I really do need to work on the mix but I was getting really worried that musically (and with the arrangement) it was becoming too disjointed.

The distorted bits will be sorted in the final version - it's partly due to the complexity and number of simultaneous resource hungry sample players but probably mainly due to my natural tendency to turn everything up to 11 before toning it back down again in a proper mix :$

Cheers,
Terry.


--------------
http://purplerhapsody.co.uk - no words, just emotions
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
^NabLa^ Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: Oct. 2001
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 08:33

The tune itself is awesome, the change on 1.50 is pure gold, then a bit enya-ish at 2.50, the classic guitar bits are nice and delicate and very well recorded for that matter; loads of cool stuff later on, I see no issues on the arrangement but yanno that's a matter of taste.

Soundwise yeah there are loads of clicks and pops which make me think the relevant recordings need repeating I'm afraid, as they are part of those audio files.

The quieter bits are nice but could do with being a bit brighter. Try adding some very very very subtle overdrive or even better a nice tube emulation on the guitar. Antares Tube and PSP Vintage Warmer will do nicely.

Okay now on the busier bits there's much room for improvement. The sound is okay but is far too muffled and lacking definition due to far too many things competing for the same frequency ranges. For example, the bass can hardly be heard at all which is a shame as the sound itself is nice and the note patterns driving.

I'm not saying to take out instruments, unless you're a quitter :P You need to eq each sound individually to make them fit on their own frequency range, and that means to both high pass and low pass each individual track. For example, on the busier bits the guitar has no business having any bass. The bass takes care of the bass frequencies when all instruments are playing. Not the guitars, not the piano. The bass. Highpass everything that's not what you want at the bottom (eg bass & kickdrum on more conventional tunes), at around 140-180Hz or even higher, but don't go overboard with it or it will end up sounding hollow.

There are some crash sounds on the first maximal section, highpass the crap out of them, you want them to only use the high frequencies, say from 6khz onwards.

When highpassing or lowpassing make sure you use a decent slope, 24db/oct is good.

Remember you can automate stuff, so for example if you're highpassing the spanish guitar you can turn off that highpass when the guitar is playing on its own and not conflicting with other instruments.

Also the percussion in general is far too quiet, drowned by the lack of clarity.

Giving each individual instrument their own space in the spectrum will improve the clarity and the fullness of the mix a hundred fold.


--------------
^NabLa^
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
^NabLa^ Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: Oct. 2001
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 08:40

Plus the first maximal section could so do with a nice acid line!!

--------------
^NabLa^
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
smillsoid Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 548
Joined: Dec. 2008
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 13:02

I agree 100% - the music's lovely, but the mix etc. is not good.  Remember what Mike says about 'giving each instrument its own space', so that you can appreciate each individual element.

--------------
http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
Ginger Daddy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: April 2002
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 13:07

NabLa - Thanks for the positive comments and the huge tutorial on EQ.

I'm not great with the EQ... the most I tend to do is to roll off lower than 50Hz and tighten up the frequencies of electric and bass guitars when they start to get muddy with everything else.

So, I realise the power of this piece will be made in the EQ and mixing so I'll just have to roll up my sleeves and get into it!

Thanks again,
Terry.


--------------
http://purplerhapsody.co.uk - no words, just emotions
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
smillsoid Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 548
Joined: Dec. 2008
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 13:11

Think in terms of "pictures in sound."  If you made a masterpiece film and showed it out of focus, it would create the same problem.  Getting the eq/mix right is vital.

--------------
http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
^NabLa^ Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: Oct. 2001
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 13:54

Quote (Ginger Daddy @ Mar. 24 2010, 18:07)
NabLa - Thanks for the positive comments and the huge tutorial on EQ.

I'm not great with the EQ... the most I tend to do is to roll off lower than 50Hz and tighten up the frequencies of electric and bass guitars when they start to get muddy with everything else.

So, I realise the power of this piece will be made in the EQ and mixing so I'll just have to roll up my sleeves and get into it!

Thanks again,
Terry.

It has to be done dude, it does take quite some time to have a good mixdown but that's what it takes. Very laborious, yes, worth it, fuck yeah. You have very high quality musical ideas, let's make them shine as they deserve :)

Other lil things... okay if you have send effects on return channels (sorry I'm a bit lost on Cubase terminology as I use Ableton Live but should be very similar), you should always high and lopass them as well.

Bear in mind cleanliness also frees up a lot of headroom so that you can have a better dynamic range to play with. Avoids a lot of phase cancellation problems especially down the bottom end.

You can argue that if each instrument is already eq'd correctly that is not necessary but I disagree; it always depends on what you're after of course but things like a delay you send instruments to, it's a good idea to at least high pass it much higher than you would on the instrument itself, it will make things much less busy and clearer.

Sorry I'll go hide under my geek rock now.


--------------
^NabLa^
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
Ginger Daddy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: April 2002
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 17:03

Quote (^NabLa^ @ Mar. 24 2010, 18:54)
<snip>

Other lil things... okay if you have send effects on return channels (sorry I'm a bit lost on Cubase terminology as I use Ableton Live but should be very similar), you should always high and lopass them as well.

Bear in mind cleanliness also frees up a lot of headroom so that you can have a better dynamic range to play with. Avoids a lot of phase cancellation problems especially down the bottom end.

Sorry I'll go hide under my geek rock now.

Thanks for more positive comments about the music itself.

Smillsoid - thanks for your support!

NabLa - don't go and hide under your geek rock, I'm really appreciating your comments. And, you got the terminology close enough that I know what you're talking about. (I use SONAR by the way, not because I dislike anything else but it grabbed my attention 3½ years ago and I've stuck with it).

Thanks again.

Terry.


--------------
http://purplerhapsody.co.uk - no words, just emotions
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
^NabLa^ Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: Oct. 2001
Posted: Mar. 24 2010, 17:15

Sorry, not sure why I thought you were using cubase when you didn't even mention it (?) yeah glad we're on the same page :)

Hey, as an exercise you could keep a bounce of the tune in its current state, do another mixdown with all we've discussed in mind, but don't change the arrangement so that, later, you can A/B both versions and truly appreciate the difference.

Look forward to the new version dude.


--------------
^NabLa^
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
12 replies since Mar. 22 2010, 16:59 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

 






Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact

Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net