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Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 22 2004, 09:26 Just wondering to what degree Mike does his drum arrangements himself, and how much is left to the respective drummer to work out. Obviously Mike is not a drummer, so he may need to rely on the expertise of his collaborators. TB2003 showed that he is not very imaginative with drums himself (though maybe that used to be different). Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 22 2004, 10:47 A quick glance through his tracks tells me that he never cared too much about the actual drumming arrangement. In most of his pop songs, the drumming is quite simple, and whatever twists and arrangements probably come from the drummer himself. I only think he had influence on the percussions in albums like Ommadawn, Incantations and Amarok, but drumming... I think he was never really interested in drums. He might have had some influence on only a few tracks, maybe, and in Music From The Balcony. But I think it mostly comes from his drummers. I think his work on the drum machines on TB2003 was just to recreate the drumming from the original, really. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 23 2004, 04:05 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 22 2004, 10:47) I think his work on the drum machines on TB2003 was just to recreate the drumming from the original, really. I was thinking about the drums on Finale, there weren't any on the original. And I listened to Crises (the track) yesterday, paying particular attention to the drums. In most cases they're probably fake anyway, and ludicrously simple. But in the "Watcher and the Tower" section and especially in the ending section the drumming is actually quite intricate and not really commonplace at all. I could imagine he worked that out together with Simon Phillips, I can't really imagine it's all Simon's work. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Aug. 23 2004, 05:05 I can't believe that the drums on Crises are "probably fake anyway". He had Simon Phillips in the band, why would he possably want a drum machine? I can't hear anything that suggests to me that they are fake anyway. I'm sure that at least some of the arranging was Simon's work: you really can notice a big difference when he is drumming (the section that Holger mentioned, Saved by a Bell and Music from the Balcony in particular). -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 23 2004, 06:05 Most parts of Crises, where there are any drums at all, have really simple "kick - snare" drum parts, often with not even any cymbals. I can't believe he bothered Simon with those. And they sound like samples, possibly a Linndrum. On the sections I've mentioned, the drumming is very obviously real, though. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Aug. 23 2004, 08:31 Yes, some of the drums are quite obviously electronic - the heavy part before the Watcher and the Tower section being quite a good example. Mike is credited with having used both an Oberheim DMX and Simmons electronic drums on the track, and I'd say they feature a fair bit. They tend to give themselves away by their low fidelity and often quite bright sounds, which are without any of the complexity of the sound of an acoustic drumkit. One thing which hints at what Mike's involvement in drum arrangements might be is Moonlight Shadow. It would be tempting to give all the credit to Simon Phillips, but before doing that, it would be a good idea to listen to Mistake from 1982, with Morris Pert on drums. The drum pattern underneath the "and you're talking on the radio" section is identical to the "I stay, I pray" section of Moonlight Shadow. Whether it was originally Morris Pert's pattern or Mike's, it must have been Mike whose suggestion it was to use it in Moonlight Shadow. We can begin to wonder how many more such suggestions he made. Back to top

Jammer Group: Members Posts: 643 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 25 2004, 18:59 Quote (Holger @ Aug. 23 2004, 09:05) in the "Watcher and the Tower" section and especially in the ending section the drumming is actually quite intricate and not really commonplace at all. I could imagine he worked that out together with Simon Phillips, I can't really imagine it's all Simon's work. I don't think Mike had too much of a detailed input on Simon's drumming. The live version is an extended drum solo that's essentially improvised The drumming on MFTB is quite intricate at times. By this stage Mike couldn't have cared too much to work out complex drum patterns Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 26 2004, 07:11 Most of the drums in MFTB seem to pull towards Jazz, and I'm positive that is Simon's influence. He sounds pretty self-sufficient on that track. And that is good. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2004, 13:17 Mike has employed some very competent and accomplished drummers/percussionists on his albums. Simon Philips, Morris Pert and Phil Collins to name just three. I think he would hardly employ such talent without allowing them the freedom of creative input and expression. I also think that one needs to look beyond just the drums and view the whole percussion ensemble to get the bigger picture. When one listens to what's happening within Crises and Taurus 2 (particularly the end section), there is so much happening that can be attributed to more than a basic drum kit. Bear in mind too that the 24 track studio notes on the inside cover of 'Five Miles Out' is a bit of a giveaway too. One can see at a glance where drums, percussion and indeed, Linndrums are used!   -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

Yuval Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 203 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Aug. 29 2004, 06:19 what do u guys think about the drumming on oldfield mount teide? Its true than in many parts the drums arent in the same quality line of the rest of the instruments, but as far as im concerned, up to tb2 - every drum hit was quite much in place. Back to top

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