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Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 10 2003, 15:23 This is somewhat connected to a question I asked some time ago, about how to amplify a grand piano. In the latest Elton John concert DVD, called 'Greatest Hits - One Night Only', he plays a Yamaha grand piano, or at least something that looks very like a Yamaha grand piano. Well, to my ears it sounds artificial... metallic, very treble-ish, with almost no bass... as it were Elton's well-known Roland keyboard and not a Yamaha grand. Does anybody have any idea why is this, or how is that piano amplified? [The lid is closed, and no microphones and/or microphone cables are visible.] I don't yet know if the DVD's soundtrack is remixed or not (though I think that it most probably is, as the show was recorded in October 2000), and of course I have no idea if remixing can affect the sound of a grand piano. So, if anybody of you saw that DVD (or some parts of it), can you please clarify this little mistery? Thank you. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Sep. 10 2003, 18:41 I think he uses something like a disklavier, so he can drive MIDI sound sources from it. I've heard him accompany his solo piano playing with a string sound, and I believe that's how he does it. If it sounds like his roland keyboard sound, it probably is. I believe Tori Amos uses a similar arrangement - she'll use the miked piano sound for quieter songs, then use the sound of a piano module connected to the MIDI piano for louder numbers, presumably to cut out the problems of spill from other instruments, and feedback. The most fun thing about the disklaviers is that not only will they transmit MIDI, but they'll recieve it too - watching one play without anyone sitting at it is very entertaining. I remember seeing harmonica player Larry Adler use one on stage once - he had a sequence of Rhapsody in Blue that had been recorded for him by George Gershwin had recorded for him (onto a player piano roll, which had later been transferred to the disklavier somehow). He announced that he was going to perform the piece "with George Gershwin on piano", at which point a technician crawled incongruously across the stage towards the piano to hit the start button on it. "That's not George Gershwin", Larry added. Well, it was funny at the time...it's all in the delivery I guess... Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Sep. 10 2003, 18:44 Another possibility is that it's a soundboard pickup, like the kind found inside electroacoustic guitars, just much larger. I think the piano in the Tubular Bells III concert was probably amplified like that, it has a very metallic sound - pickups usually do sound like that. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 10 2003, 19:50 Yeah, the piano+strings that Elton often played in previous concerts is a typical Roland setting (I have it on my own Roland synth), but I'm almost sure about the piano that he plays on his latest DVD NOT being a Disklavier. He never does piano+strings during the concert... Guy Babylon plays strings on a separate keyboard. When I mentioned his Roland keyboard, I was just referring to the piano sound played by Elton on that keyboard. I wasn't thinking about the piano+strings thing at all. Anyway, I know what the Disklavier is [I saw it in some stores, and I also saw it play by itself... hehehehe ], and Elton's piano is a real Yamaha grand, or at least, like I said above, it looks very like it. So it's most probably a pickup as you say, because, yes, I hear the very same treble-ish sound on the TBIII DVD... so... Thanks a lot. P.S. I think that transferring a 'Pianola' roll to a Disklavier MIDI sequence is fairly easy, although I have no idea of the exact process. AFAIK most of the Disklavier floppies containing classical stuff (I heard some: Mozart, Chopin, etc.) were made from old Pianola rolls. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Sep. 11 2003, 00:43 Well...disklaviers are real Yamaha grands. The only way to tell them apart from the outside is to look for the small box of electronics underneath the keyboard...that's unless they've removed it from there and put it somewhere else. That said, a look at some rather unclear pictures from the concert doesn't reveal anything of that kind. He apparently favours a Yamaha CFIIIS 9' Grand - it is available as a Disklavier Pro as well (the DCFIIIS)...he probably has one of each. The way to tell is going to be the sound - one will sound like a sampled piano, the other will sound like a piano with a pickup... As I don't have the DVD, I don't know. The piano and strings setting is found in just about every synthesiser known to man which is capable of both sounds When I saw Elton John do it (on TV a while ago...I can't say I take much of an interest in him usually and so I'm sure there are people who have much more of a clue about his setup than I do), it was a string sound from some unknown source mixed with the miked sound of his piano. Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Sep. 11 2003, 13:39 I haven't a clue what you're all talking about from a technical point of view (is the piano that big black thing?), but i did see Elton John on the greatest hit tour locally. The whole show was him playing with nothing else to be seen on stage, but there were at least 5 different effects/sounds, not to mention rocket man with incredible delay on both voice and piano. The strings were triggered by the piano, but a lot must have been added by the mixing desk. Still not a touch on our Mike and the huge amazing sounds He can produce. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

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