Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Has anyone worked out any good GT6 patches< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 05 2005, 08:25

I've read various posts from people about FX and setups to achieve characteristic sounds. I'm a GT6 owner and although there are many presets that work well for Oldfieldesque playing (albeit with minor tweaks), I'd be interested in hearing if any of the muso's out there have any favourite patches that suit particular periods of Oldfieldism.

The GT6 does have some limited guitar synth stuff, but I suspect falls quite short of the facilities of the VG8 or 88.

I'm particularly interested in the early 80s sound (Exposed, Five Miles Out), but tips on earlier or later welcomed.

Ok its not that straight forward - guitar and amp come into the equation too. I use a PRS Custom 24 but haven't settled on an amp that I really like yet (currently a Crate combo which I detest). Don't really like the Marshalls that I've had before - too crunchy and not enough warmth. Going to look at a Mesa in a week or so. My secondary guitar is an Epiphone SG (called Holly, if you're interested)
Back to top
Profile PM 
Luca Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 03:21

Are GT5 patches compatable with the GT6? I have a load of Oldfield GT5 patches that are really good.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 10:21

I'm not sure, but I'll do some digging - thanks
Back to top
Profile PM 
Thea Cochrane Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 445
Joined: Nov. 1999
Posted: Jan. 10 2005, 19:33

I remember hearing a demo CD of the GT-5 that had some very Oldfield-like tones on it... kept meaning to have a play with one some time but never got around to it. Every time I go to the stores I get distracted by other things.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Luca Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: Jan. 11 2005, 03:14

I read somewhere mike has one (i think its on the gear page), so thats why i got it. Plus the GT5 and the newer GT3 are mostly analogue where as the GT6 is digital (or so im told). I thought the GT5 sounded best, its a shame you cant get them any more  :(
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 11 2005, 03:22

Ampwise I think I'm settling into a Mesa Lonestar. This seems to have a really wide range of tones in itself that just need to be tickled with FX.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Korgscrew Offline




Group: Super Admins
Posts: 3511
Joined: Dec. 1999
Posted: Jan. 11 2005, 07:30

A Mesa/Boogie combo was Mike's amp of choice for distorted sounds in his live concerts in the 70s and 80s, so the Lonestar might get you somewhere close. My tip would be to not necessarily rely on just one kind of distortion - it's typical for people to either set the amp clean and use a distortion pedal/multi FX for the distortion, or to use the amp's dirty channel for the drive. There's nothing wrong with either, but interesting results can be had from setting a very mildly distorted sound on the amp (which can then be cleaned up by playing softer - a very natural feeling way of controlling the sound, in my view - or by backing off the guitar's volume control a little), and using a pedal to push it further over the edge.
I'd not bother with reverb myself, either from any pedals or the amp (and I don't believe Mike ever used any either) - I feel it works better when that's added at the mixing desk (and if the gig's small enough for the amps not to be miked up, the natural reverb of the room tends to be enough).

The key to the Mike 80s sound tends to be in the midrange - it's really the opposite of the popular hard rock Marshall type sound, which has more emphasis on highs and lows. The highs in particular are something to look out for - a lot of people trying to emulate Mike end up with a sound that's like a buzz saw, which isn't what you're after at all! The smoother sound of power amp overdrive is more what you're after, though you might find that demands turning up to ridiculous levels. You could experiment instead with a compressor, getting the sustain without the heavy drive (which is what can lead to the buzz saw sound). If you're doing the thing of using a pedal to boost an already distorted amp, you can roll off the treble after the first distortion - the distortion on the amp will add extra high harmonics anyway (depending on the amount set, of course), so rolling them off after the first one will help smooth things off.
A fair bit is in the playing though - as long as you've got a sound that's in the right ballpark, the playing will get you the rest of the way. I can get vaguely Mike-like sounds out of all sorts of things, when I try (I don't usually, these days), just by adopting the right approach. Getting that approach right is the bigger part of the battle, I think.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 11 2005, 13:19

Good advice. I think there is often an assumption that you need boxes x,y & z to create a particular sound, when its really in the fingers more often than not. I used to have a Boogie a few years back and it gave me just what I wanted with minimum fuss. Tickled up with a bit of chorus and delay it gets to Gilmour country very easily. You mention the mids. I had wondered if this was controlled with a slightly backed off wah. To answer my own speculation - I don't think it is, because the tonal colouration doesn't seem to be 'wrong'. I spose, in general mix terms, the sound is more akin to a cello with attitude than a fiddle.

I'm picking up a Lonestar in about a week or so after having wrestled with the aweful cost of the thing. An amp is for life and not just for christmas !!
Back to top
Profile PM 
Luca Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: Jan. 11 2005, 16:36

I got a Mesa mark IIa off ebay, which does the job, if i were you i would look for an older second hand mesa combo instead of a lonestar, but hey, thats my 2p. Also, i tried to recreate that really bad-yet-cool distortion that mike used eary on, firstly with a home made box, which was truly terrible, and secondly with a boss ds-1 (the cheapest thing you can get) and that suprisingly does quite well.
Back to top
Profile PM 
reclspeak Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 7
Joined: Oct. 2004
Posted: Jan. 13 2005, 13:48

I too have recently purchased a GT-6, following an excellent demo in a local Borders by Nick from Roland UK (as part of a Brian Moore/Roland sales tour).

I'm still getting to grips with it, although I've managed to make a few patches alrealdy. I've been using the excellent GT Manager editor for this, but unfortunatley it only works on a PC. If I had the extra dosh and no need for an expression pedal, I would have got the new GS-10, as it's USB/software is Mac OSX compatible. I might still get a GT-10 when it is released outside Japan.

However I've been finding that patches created by others invariably come nowhere near the tone you are anticipating; mostly because the combo/head being used by the author is so totally different. I use a Behringer combo and Vox Valvetronix and they invariably don't replicate the original authors setup (though the Vox does come close). Then of course there are different pickups to contend with.

I'm aiming to purchase a Roland GR-20 guitar synthesizer mid-year (again after seeing the excellent live demo). I'll share any GT-6 patches if I manage to generate some realistic MO ones.

recl.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 13 2005, 17:01

The GR-20 looks like great value for money. In the manual it suggests that the GR-20 and GT-6 together provide you with the most comprehensive solution. But my concern is with the pickup. I don't really want to stick it onto a £2500 guitar. I was thinking of putting the pickup onto my no 2 guitar instead. I think where I'll end up is with guitar 2 plumbed into GR-20, GT-6 on Mesa Lonestar effects loop and guitars 1 & 2 both feeding into Mesa Lonestar amp in via a selector box ( option 1 being via GR-20, option 2 straight to amp exc GR-20). This will give me GT6 effects available to all, Gr20 synth available on guitar 2 only.
Its worse than plumbing in VCR, DVD and Freeview boxes together !!
Back to top
Profile PM 
Korgscrew Offline




Group: Super Admins
Posts: 3511
Joined: Dec. 1999
Posted: Jan. 14 2005, 10:18

Ah yes, Nick Cooper does some very slick demos, the kind that make the gear sound amazing...they evidently work in selling the products too!

To add a bit more detail about the backed off wah idea, you'd be right, Phil, in thinking that it wouldn't give quite the right sound. There's a little more to the answer though - Mike has never used conventional Wah pedals (apart from where he uses one on the bass in the Tubular Bells 2nd House performance). In the 70s, he had what I believe was a custom built parametric equaliser, which could be controlled by a pedal (he once described it as sounding much nicer than a conventional wah). That may well be what he still uses live - in the studio he now does it using the EQ in his Neve Capricorn desk (presumably again controlled via a pedal).

I'd personally recommend plugging a guitar synthesiser direct into a PA system if you're able to (and for home use, a hifi system would do the job) - synthesisers tend to sound pretty horrid through guitar amps.
You might also find that the overdrive of the GT6 doesn't sound too hot when it's used in the effects loop, and wah could sound rather odd as well, if you're driving the Mesa's preamp at all. That said, people often prefer having effects like chorus after the preamp, and the effects loop is definitely the best place for reverb (though I still say the very best place for that is after the amp! ).
You'll quite likely not need the GT6 effects on the GR-20, as it has its own, of the kind that'll help to make the synth sounds more interesting. One thing to bear in mind if you do choose to run the GR-20 through the GT6 is it'll mean not only a change of guitar, but then possibly two button/pedal pushes before you're ready to play (one to set the right synth sound, one to select the right GT6 patch) - that could turn out to be one push too many! It depends how well you get on with such things, I suppose, I tend to prefer to not have so many things to think about on stage, but that's usually because I'm trying to keep my mind on several things already.
You might find there's a way to simplify that using MIDI patch change messages, actually, but if at least one of the devices can't be programmed to transmit the right ones, that would then mean using a MIDI pedal board, which is yet more to trip over in the dark!
Back to top
Profile PM 
Thea Cochrane Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 445
Joined: Nov. 1999
Posted: Jan. 17 2005, 10:32

Quote (Phil Moakes @ Jan. 13 2005, 22:01)
But my concern is with the pickup. I don't really want to stick it onto a £2500 guitar.

I was looking at getting a VG-8 or VG-88 at one point (still haven't done it...) and the Roland rep told me that as the pitch caculations are done in the hardware rather than software, you could fit the pickup to a railway sleeper as long as it had six metal strings and a fretboard on it. I've got an old second hand guitar that I had planned to fit it to for this reason. You don't hear the guitar tone, so it doesn't matter if it doesn't have the best pickups and things, although it's obviously nice to play a guitar that feels nice. I suppose fret/string buzzes might be problematic...
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 18 2005, 14:35

I'm still unsure about the VG88 versus the GR20 or GR33. The GR20 looks like a shrunken 33, which looks like a VG88 with easy presets and less COSM stuff for amp modelling. I spose I'm leaning towards the 33 at the moment, but I'm still looking for a reason to go for the VG88. Well I suppose its a luxury that I can spend a few more months thinking through ...
Back to top
Profile PM 
Luca Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: Jan. 18 2005, 16:04

Quote
But my concern is with the pickup. I don't really want to stick it onto a £2500 guitar.


You can buy some pezio pickups which replace the existing saddles on the bridge and provide both a pezio sound and can drive a midi devive. They look nice which is the main thing, and require little drilling etc... horribly expensive though....  :(
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 18 2005, 16:19

I definitely couldn't start drilling my PRS. If I do get a GR whatever, then I'll probably fit it to my epiphone SG. If the GR33 provides anything like (and i imagine its stax better) the synth sounds on the GT6 (yep there are some), then it will open up so many new doors.

Does anyone know of a good footswitch that allows you to feed several singles in and choose 1 out to go to a common amp. I could take 3 feeds (PRS with GT6, Epiphone with GR33 and Ovation) into this box and then select which one goes to the amp. I've left this question with Mesa to see if they have something, but I guess there will be lots of manufacturers that do this.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Luca Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: Jan. 18 2005, 16:30

Ive not seen if Mesa do that, but im planning on building and A/B box when i get my new amp so i can use my mesa for cruch/dist and the fender for clean. It looks dead easy to make, im planning on using a line6 foot switch chassis, and i wouldnt expect that it would be much harder to do an input selector, you would probably save yourself a few bob as well.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Phil Moakes Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: Jan. 22 2005, 18:28

OK - after a bit of procrastination I've jumped and bought a GR-20 with the GK3 pickup - it was on a deal at my local music shop for £339. I must admit that after trying it out for half an hour I was impressed. Yes there is a sort of delay, but that's slightly tunable with the sensitivity and you very quickly get used to it. For strings and non percussives it was very good; a bit hit and miss with piano chords, but Ok for single notes. Single notesound percussives fine. Great sitars, mandolin & banjo ok-ish but may lose it if you want to do them at speed. Sax was great (not often you hear that !!;). Anyway - now I've got one I'll have to be enthusiastic.

Found an ABC switch made by Lehle that looks the part for switching 3 signals into 1 amp (PRS with GT6, Epiphone with GR20 and Ovation acoustic). At the risk of ending up in peddle board hell, I'm thinking of getting a single board of on/off midi pedals to trigger patch changes on both GT6 and GR20. This way I can put all my tweaked or presets in user 'banks' for both devices, set up the midi pedals to talk to both and then just choose which ones at the right time (and make sure I label them). As long as I'm firing from the right guitar I should be OK. This is, incidentally just to make sure that I don't have to think about patch changes too much when doing it live.
Back to top
Profile PM 
17 replies since Jan. 05 2005, 08:25 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

 






Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact

Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net