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Man From The Moon Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 14:20 I wonder, if you know Seans's Morghan book about Mike? When I bought it, I was hoping to read something good about Oldfield, and what did I find?? So much criticism! I was really amezed... And I startet to think "If I wanted to deal with critics, I would have to threw away almoust every MO records!" It was hard to belive, that something, that is so beautiful to me, can be treated so bad! Of course, i konw, that everyone has "saint right" to have opinion, but I realised, that Critics shoud not write things, that are only their own point of view, becouse ist's simply a lie, from some other's listeners point of view. It is sad, when You read about Your beloved albums, that they are "garbage", or something like that. For example, some Critic has written about QE 2, that if you only considering buying this album, you are ended as thinking human being. My God! He shouden't have written something like that! He dosen't have to like this music, but he shoud not tell this to the wide public, using that kind of expression! For many it's simply not true! Sometimes I think, that they are sure, that what they write is objective fact, but it's not! Maybe they want to show how smart they are? It's easy to say "it's bad", but it's not easy to create! Do they listen to the music with their ears, and souls? I guess that they listen with some lower body parts... Nobody can tell people what they should feel about music (or poems, books, films...), becouse it'a stupid to think, that our feelings are objective... Of course it's greate to share with other people with Your opinions, for example on this forum, but writing in a magazine taht "music is cold", or "it's like mixing X with Y and...", or "parts of the song should be "more this" or "less taht", or "it's too dark" etc., is not wright, becouse anyway I will have my own opinons. No one should tell us, what we should feel. What is "cold" for jurnalist, can be "worm" for me, and so on. Everyone is a "lonesome judge", and that is how it should be. We can SHARE opinons, but not MAKE them for the others. If I imagine what would happened, if I did as critics say... My Gog! I would never listen to the most beautiful music to me!   ............. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 14:43 It's the only Oldfield book I've been able to find. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 14:54 I sympathise, very much. But what you're reading is simply poor criticism. And sadly, there is vastly more poor criticism in the world than there is good. The comforting thing is this. All the arrogant critics who are so keen to rubbish this, and damn that, will gradually come to be forgotten. Or, if not forgotten, laughed at. And the good art that they trashed will probably survive in spite of them. The road through the history of art is paved with the forgotten writings of arrogant, ignorant, blinkered critics. Back to top

Inkanta Group: Admins Posts: 1453 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 20:13 Quote (hiawatha @ Aug. 29 2005, 13:43) It's the only Oldfield book I've been able to find. Be on the lookout for the reprinting (?) of the Making of Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells. Maybe one of the Dark Star guys will see this and say more, but apparently it will come back into stock shortly. I still haven't read completely through my copy, but so far, so good.  This is sad, since I've had the thing for awhile, but I keep getting sidetracked.... Wish I could give you a few more details about it, but I'm on a 2,800 mile roadtrip at the moment delivering my oldest daughter to college, and I don't have the book along with me (I often do, thinking on the road I'll have a bit of extra time to finish it! ). -------------- "No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From:  Moongarden's "Solaris." Back to top

Ostach Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Aug. 29 2005, 20:19 I've also read this book and I was quite shocked by the some opinions about some albums. e.g. QE2 is not so bad but Moraghan says something different... on the other side, he consider some tracks with Ayers to be so great..... but afterall, it's the only MO book I was able to find in my beatiful country... -------------- I stay I pray See you in heaven one day... Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 03:58 However much a critic values their own opinion, they are just that - a critic. Any book, newspaper article, interview or review is just one person's opinion. Just as we give our opinion, so do they. The problem is that some folk tend to value a critic's opinion more than their own, feeling that somehow life has dealt a critic a better ear. This is complete nonsense of course because however much a critic might state that their opinion is purely objective, they can't help but make subjective observations based on what lurks beneath the surface; their subconscious creeps through in poorly disguised personal taste and thus it becomes more than an impartial review. It's simply human nature I'm afraid and one reason why I take very little notice of another person's opinion, making up my own mind like most of us should and indeed do. I might debate feelings and opinions but at the end of the day, I don't expect to change the opinions and tastes of others, just as they shouldn't expect to change mine. If the book is poor, don't buy it, don't read it and if you have done so already one must either accept that this is just one person's opinion and they are entitled to give it, or send it back and make one's point to the author and publisher - but don't expect to be able to change their opinion. I haven't read the book, but if he is saying that some of the tracks with Kevin Ayres are great, then I agree on that score. Mike contributes some very good work on 'Shooting at the Moon', 'Whatevershebringswesing' and 'The Confessions of Dr Dream'   -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

TubularBelle Group: Members Posts: 1487 Joined: April 2004 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 04:03 What about, 'Music from the Darkness, Mike Oldfield 1953 - 1993' by Peter Evans although according to Dark Star Issue 25 which I got today it is now only available online and the LAST REMAINING STOCK of The Making of Tubular Bells, a hardback book are available for 15 pounds. If a book is ABOUT Mike Oldfield, then surely you would expect it to say postitive things about the music at least. A biography obviously can say good and bad things about a person but why would you write a book about a musician at all if you were not a fan of his music, it makes not one iota of bloody sense. Does he expect that people who do not like Mikes music are going to buy the book, CRAZY!!!! -------------- I hate getting up early. I didn't even realise there were two 6 o'clocks in one day! Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 04:33 Quote (T4 @ Aug. 30 2005, 08:58) however much a critic might state that their opinion is purely objective, they can't help but make subjective observations The situation is far worse than this, in fact. The whole notion of objective criticism is based on a fallacy that there is always in art a 'correct' way of doing something. This doesn't lead to problems so long as the artist has limited scope and stays within his genre. But the moment new ground is broken (and after all, these are the works of art that are the most interesting, exciting, and potentially the most life-enhancing), the established rules go out of the window. When the great artist launches into the unknown, he leaves most critics flapping about like dying fish on the beach when the tide goes out. Elvis did it, Dylan did it, Turner did it, Monet did it, Picasso did it, and so on and on. And the critics applied their established rules, found the new work wanting,  wailed their disapproval from the rooftops and they all look pretty silly now. In a lifetime of reading books and articles about art (in a wide sense, including music) I've never found any passage of damning criticism to be of the slightest use to me. The only criticism worth having is that of the perceptive writer who explains the background from which the art arose; who tries to get under the artist's skin to understand what he's trying to do; who says 'Look at (or listen to) this in such and such a way; I've found it helpful.' But as for the critic who marches in with a rulebook and a head full of preconceptions and thinks he knows all about what's good and what's bad ... the sad truth is (as Socrates recognised) that he knows less than nothing. Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 06:53 Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 30 2005, 04:33) Quote (T4 @ Aug. 30 2005, 08:58) however much a critic might state that their opinion is purely objective, they can't help but make subjective observations The situation is far worse than this, in fact. The whole notion of objective criticism is based on a fallacy that there is always in art a 'correct' way of doing something. This doesn't lead to problems so long as the artist has limited scope and stays within his genre. But the moment new ground is broken (and after all, these are the works of art that are the most interesting, exciting, and potentially the most life-enhancing), the established rules go out of the window. When the great artist launches into the unknown, he leaves most critics flapping about like dying fish on the beach when the tide goes out. Elvis did it, Dylan did it, Turner did it, Monet did it, Picasso did it, and so on and on. And the critics applied their established rules, found the new work wanting,  wailed their disapproval from the rooftops and they all look pretty silly now. In a lifetime of reading books and articles about art (in a wide sense, including music) I've never found any passage of damning criticism to be of the slightest use to me. The only criticism worth having is that of the perceptive writer who explains the background from which the art arose; who tries to get under the artist's skin to understand what he's trying to do; who says 'Look at (or listen to) this in such and such a way; I've found it helpful.' But as for the critic who marches in with a rulebook and a head full of preconceptions and thinks he knows all about what's good and what's bad ... the sad truth is (as Socrates recognised) that he knows less than nothing. Excellent points Alan. -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 16:04 Man From The Moon, I think you're right on all of this, just stop feeling bad about it. You can spend a lifetime worrying about these things, but it's not something I'd personally waste any energy on. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 16:35 It was a very cheaply put together book if I remember rightly, I haven't read it in a while. Sean Morghan did actually address some of his critics within the fan circles with a letter he wrote to either Dark Star or David Porter's now defunct Airborne fanzine (can't remember which) around about the time the book came out concerning the quality if the editing. Apparantly it was out of his hands. I don't remember it being a bad book, I didn't agree with all his analyses of individual albums. But generally I think he got things about right. Certaianly regarding Mike's brush with Exegesis and how it changed him as a person and his subsequent albums. That observation was pretty astute and made interesting reading. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 16:46 Where can "the Making of Tubular Bells" be purchased? -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Man From The Moon Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 16:47 Well TOBY - I didn't write, that Sean's book is "bad". I Think taht book as a book is good and interesting. And I'm not "angry" becouse of Sean. His book contains other critics comments, and I don't blem Sean becouse he show them to. I only ment, that this book shows us some sad in my opinion truth - that critics are to agressive, sometimes they use words, that they shoulden't use, becouse of others' people feeling, and they behave, as their opinion was objective truth. It;s not about Sean, it's about critics, who sound like they were mouth of the Highest Judge. I think that everyone is one-person-subjective-court, that's all.   Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Aug. 30 2005, 18:59 Quote (T4 @ Aug. 30 2005, 08:58) If the book is poor, don't buy it, don't read it and if you have done so already one must either accept that this is just one person's opinion and they are entitled to give it, or send it back and make one's point to the author and publisher - but don't expect to be able to change their opinion. I haven't read the book, but if he is saying that some of the tracks with Kevin Ayres are great, then I agree on that score. Mike contributes some very good work on 'Shooting at the Moon', 'Whatevershebringswesing' and 'The Confessions of Dr Dream'   As it happens I found this book in Kington library, so I requested it from my local library upon my return, I have it here right now. It's not overall a bad book , if you can live with one or two errors (one quite glaring)  Mick Taylor from The Rolling Stones is referred to as "Mike Taylor" at one point, trivial perhaps. Sean Moraghan states  "In autumn 1973 Mike retreated to a country house on the Herefordshire side of the border with Wales".  Later on he states Sometime during or after August( I assume this refers to 1974), Mike had found a cottage in Wales and set up his own studio there.  The cottage was known as The Beacon, which given it's name, may have been situated near Beacon Hill , some fifteen miles north of Hergest  Ridge .  Warrrggghhhh!!!! WRONG:O , The Beacon, is situated on Bradnor Hill located , no more than two miles from Hergest Ridge.  I guess The  Beacon is so called because of the outstanding panoramic views over Kington, Hergest RidgeHerefordshire, Worcestershire and on a clear day to the Black Mountains to the south     . SM's  views I feel are rather harsh on QE2, not Mike's best album, but no where near as bad as it's made out to be. T4 the book is positive about Mike's playing on Kevin Ayres' tracks. I agree there, what I've heard I like, (need to get some more). I guess really it boils down to a matter of opinion, the reader will form his or her own opinions of the book. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

TubularBelle Group: Members Posts: 1487 Joined: April 2004 Posted: Aug. 31 2005, 01:45 Quote (hiawatha @ Aug. 30 2005, 16:46) Where can "the Making of Tubular Bells" be purchased? Dark Star web site: www.mikeoldfield.org Hardcover copy, 15 pounds. -------------- I hate getting up early. I didn't even realise there were two 6 o'clocks in one day! Back to top

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