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Topic: instrumentals vs. songs, your thoughts< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
maria Offline




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Posted: May 25 2003, 17:10

when the other day, during the press conference in madrid, mike asked the audience to choose between long instrumentals or short compositions,  most people chose the first option and i'm wondering why (generally) his long and medium length instrumentals  are somehow more deep appreciated and also why (generally again) it seems instrumentals of any length are "more oldfield" than his songs? (or is it just me?) by saying "more oldfield" i don't mean better or worse... there are different tastes, but in general terms it seems most people is keener on instrumentals and if long, much better.

the first idea that comes to my mind to explain why i prefer the long instrumentals is that his musical ideas are something that need time to develop... imho his best is to build and play around an initial scheme, changing and completing it free from the 5 minute standard length,  that is the way he gets that hypnotic mood sometimes. it's something like in a long composition one can see how he slowly lifts a "building" with all its sense. i'd say mike's a "long race runner", his best qualities need time to be unfurled, therefore full enjoyed.

i don't remember whether this has ever been discussed here, but i'd like to know other opinions.


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DarkenedEdo Offline




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Posted: June 10 2003, 13:36

Do you need mine?  :D
There's a great difference between short tracks and long instrumental compositions: when you compose a short track (i wrote songs, music and words, for a long time when i was younger) you are always thinking how it will be at the end. The only tought you have is to fill 5 minutes with few chords, with a good riff, with a melody easy to remember, in any case never too boring. You compose it with piano or guitar, and you record it changing the arrangement.
When you compose instrumental tracks, longer, you start to fly with your mind, the arrangement run together with the notes, while your thinking to a melody a brand new melody comes into your head with an incredible sense of attachement. You work on the keyboard in a part, on the guitar in another part, but most of all, you work imaging what in a few minutes will come in your fingers.
Not explained good, but this is the sense.


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: July 16 2003, 04:38

Um, I don't really prefer one or the other when it comes to songs or instrumentals. That is why I favour the Five Miles Out/Crises album format, with a big long instrumental on one side and shorter pieces on the other. That way, everyone is happy, and there is some variation in the album.

I would like to see Mike do more short instrumentals, like In the Pool, Jungle Gardenia, Outcast etc. I really like instrumental pieces, and an album of really good short instrumentals would be nice. I've been listening recently to a lot of Steve Vai, Joe Satriani etc, and I've come to like the guitar instrumentals they do. Mike is a fantastic guitarist, and I know he could do some really great guitar instrumentals. Songs with guitar solos would be great as well. It would also be very nice to see a big 20 minute piece, as we haven't had one of them for a while. Maybe doing TB2003 will help get Mike back into the spirit of long instrumentals, and hopefully he will start doing them again.


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evolution169 Offline




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Posted: July 22 2003, 21:29

I totally agree with you raven4x4x.

I think it would be great for mike, in order to compose great guitar stuff, to go back into playing with a real band as he used to do in the QE2/Five Miles Out era(it would be great to have Simon Philips on the drums again :)...and Tim Cross on keyboards....but maybe i'm asking too much ). :)
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DanishDonJuan Offline




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Posted: Oct. 02 2003, 12:11

I agree as well. Raven4x4x & evolution169
I love the idea of Mike using real bands again. I also like the old album format of one long & several single pieces, that he stopped with the Heaven's Open cd for some reason. Though Heaven's Open is one of my least favorite Oldfield cds, I loved Discovery, QE2, Crisis, Five miles out, Islands & Platinum who all seemed to use that type of format.
I love both his guitar playing, the vocals, the piano & orchestry. And also love the mix of single, short instrumentals & long instrumentals.
I wonder why Mike stopped using this format.


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If every road we traveled were the easy, we would be weak, and would eventually think every road difficult.
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X11 Offline




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Posted: Jan. 06 2004, 08:23

A well written instrumental can express emotion better then words in my opinion.

My favorites would be Mike Oldfield, The Shadows, etc, among others.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Jan. 08 2004, 05:45

If Mike tried to make a pop album today, I wouldn't like to imagine what it would sound like. I mean, music is in a miserable state right now, and for every great band, like Radiohead, we have to swallow a hundred of lousy Hip Hop crap and stuff. In the Eighties, he could go well with Pop in the style of Family Man and Moonlight Shadow and To France (score! ) and whatever, in the early Nineties, there was Heaven's Open (score! ), but now? Hmm... Dunno.

So I say... Long or short, be it instrumentals. Be it idiosyncratic, 'cause that's what made Mike stand out, anyway. Tubular Bells, Ommadawn and Amarok are all stand-outs because they're unique. And that's what I think we need. Music Must Change (£1 to Pete Townshend).

PS: I didn't want to make a tasteless joke before, but aren't you afraid of the possibility of Mike Oldfield turning into the newest Santana? With that lousy Pop crowd-pleasing guitar solo stuff? Or worse: Mike Oldfield feat. [insert name of Gangsta rapper here]? :O Bleh!

PPS: Why does a ! immediately followed by a ) transforms itself into a wink smiley? Like this: !;) ?


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Jan. 12 2004, 04:20

I can hardly see him doing pop albums any time soon. He seems to be through with the pop album phase for the time being. I still would like him to do an album of instrumentals, but before that I think he should go on tour and get a bit of publicity. A good tour of even just the UK and Europe would generate a lot of excitement, I know that fans all through the world have been wishing for a tour for a very long time. Touring would be just as good for him as it would be for the fans, as a lot of others have discussed elsewhere in this forum.

Replying to Sir Mustapha, I agree that popular music will have to do a lot of changing before I listen to it, but I hardly think that Santana is part of the problem. When did you last hear a pop song with a guitar solo? Or, come to think of it, any guitar at all? I'm glad to see that Santana is still keeping the guitar alive in popular music. Less pop, more good rock.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Jan. 12 2004, 05:32

I wasn't making a complaint against Santana in particular - hey, I don't have anything against the guy. It was just a poke at artists turning "hip" and "mainstream" and doing slow-motion videos for MTV. I wasn't serious, really.

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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: Jan. 12 2004, 07:40

I personally like both,really,but I think that Mike does a great job with long instrumental stuff.The formula you find on albums like FMO and Crises are good since you've got the mix of both - long instrumental stuff coexisting well with short tumes(instrumentals and songs).Now you've got CDs with 74 - 80 minutes of music,it's possible for Mike to explore this fact.

I do hope that the next piece of music Mike will release would be something he feels confortable to create...


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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Jan. 12 2004, 16:51

Personally, i have to agree that the "best" mike period or the most popular was the QE2 to Discovery era. Long side one, pop side two. And with a cohesive band.
It's well known that mike likes control, just doesn't trust to others. But for a while, that band added that bit extra to his work. And the live shows were something else, tight, working from each other not just playing a score.
Also, that era brought the biggest sales and broadest appeal to the public, not just us hardcore fans.
The games could bring in new people, but so could dance mixes.
By using the short pieces for radio, popular acclaim, mike can draw people into his world, his vision with his longer compositions.
My wife asks "where are the lyrics", my son wants the crescendos and guitar leads. So the uninitiated, that new audience want both.


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afronte Offline




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Posted: Feb. 12 2004, 17:31

My vote goes to long instrumentals, and among them my favourites still remain the ones of his first phase: Tubular Bells to Incantations, before the music market conditions forced Mike to move in different directions.

I like some of the songs, but at the end of the day there are tons of people capable of doing nice songs (don't shot me :))

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Jim Glass Offline




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Posted: Sep. 19 2004, 14:37

Quote (maria @ May 25 2003, 17:10)
when the other day, during the press conference in madrid, mike asked the audience to choose between long instrumentals or short compositions,  most people chose the first option and i'm wondering why (generally) his long and medium length instrumentals  are somehow more deep appreciated and also why (generally again) it seems instrumentals of any length are "more oldfield" than his songs? (or is it just me?) by saying "more oldfield" i don't mean better or worse... there are different tastes, but in general terms it seems most people is keener on instrumentals and if long, much better.

the first idea that comes to my mind to explain why i prefer the long instrumentals is that his musical ideas are something that need time to develop... imho his best is to build and play around an initial scheme, changing and completing it free from the 5 minute standard length,  that is the way he gets that hypnotic mood sometimes. it's something like in a long composition one can see how he slowly lifts a "building" with all its sense. i'd say mike's a "long race runner", his best qualities need time to be unfurled, therefore full enjoyed.

i don't remember whether this has ever been discussed here, but i'd like to know other opinions.

One thing I dislike about his songs is the frequently daft lyrics. "There's a crises" [sic] and so on. I wish he would just spend more time writing the LYRICS as opposed to the MUSIC.

Also the sometimes muddy engineering. I am credited on Oldfield University for having discovered--after MUCH research--the precise lyrics of "Queen and Huntress"--which is the "Ode to Cynthia" from Ben Jonson's "Cynthia's Revels"...and the precise source of "In Dulci Jubilo" which began as an instrumental by a (crazy) monk named Heinrich Sosa in 1350 and then morphed into a Christmas song called "All Good Christian Men Rejoice" in the 1500s...

The 'hypnotic mood' I put slightly differently. Both Mike and Bach know how to 'hook into the alpha rhythm' of the brain; at their best, they grab your synapses and won't let go. I used to love to study math with Bach in the background, but I cannot stand to have Mike as background music; for me at least he demands your FULL ATTENTION...
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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Dec. 18 2004, 21:23

Quote
I love both his guitar playing, the vocals, the piano & orchestry. And also love the mix of single, short instrumentals & long instrumentals.
I wonder why Mike stopped using this format.


I think the most basic simple reason for this could be the introduction of cds which are one long play and not two seperate sides, although as I said in another post I read that when Mike recorded TBIII he did one whole side as a dance track but later decided against this, so it shows he was still thinking in that side 1, side 2, format.
I always preferred the early long instrumental albums to the half long instrumental, half songs or short instrumentals, but it would be boring if all his albums were like that. I think Mike personally prefers the long instrumentals himself and only changed the format to try and be more commercial and lift his profile to reach a wider audience. I don't think Mike is a prolific song writer, as someone else said, others can write better songs, it's his instrumental work that makes him unique, and the words are often childlike and too simple. It's only the guitar solos that make the songs credible,(but having said all that, I adore the song 'Far Country'.) I always wanted to put together my own album of all Mikes short instrumental tracks and I recently did this and discovered that they almost completely stopped after Legend from Elements in '85. My cd list: Argiers '76, Phaecian Games '76, First Excursion '76, Guilty '79, The Path '79, Woodhenge '79, Punkadiddle '79, Taurus I '80, Taurus II '82, Taurus III '83, The Peak '82, Mount Teidi '82, Jungle Gardenia '83, Crises '83, Afghan '84, Tricks of the Light (instrumental version) '84, and Legend '85. It's amazing how well these tracks all blend together and sound like a professionally produced album.
I think it is important to look at Mikes first four albums when he was completely true to himself and everything after Heavens Open when he was released from his binding contract with Virgin. Because it appears to me that since then he has wanted to return to his roots of the long instrumental but struggles with the desire to be seen as young and hip and appeal to a wider audience. How would you describe The Millennium Bell? All the albums from say Platinum to Heavens Open were affected by pressure from the record company to be more commercial and this IMHO makes them not his best work and not his true calling, God only knows how the unique and unusual Amarok snuck in there.
Of course I love all of Mikes work but have increasingly been more excited about new releases since he left Virgin as I feel he has more control now over artistic license, we forget that Mike doesn't have his own record label so even he has to answer to the big wigs who won't release if it they don't like it.
Thanks,
Tracy.


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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Dec. 18 2004, 21:28

Oh and just one other quick thought, I have also read that Mikes long instrumental pieces have been criticised for being repetitive, esp the TB series, so perhaps Mike was trying to avoid that.
Tracy


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TwyliteMagick Offline




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Posted: Dec. 21 2004, 06:23

I don't know whether this has been said but there is a theory that "where words fail, music will speak to you". With a short song plus lyrics, the mind generally tries to focus on the lyrics as a way of understanding thesong where as with long compositions, you can just sit back and appreciate it without having to concentrate, the music just speaks for itself. Best instrumental? Probably Ommadawn. Without On Horseback.

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Wanderer Offline




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Posted: Mar. 13 2005, 03:38

The problem with Mike the songwriter is that he is a mediocre lyricist at best.

His 80s pop songs contain many catchy riffs but his lyrics are often  gramatically bollocks ("love is a gift and to take you so much").

If he worked with a good lyricist, I'd be all for him doing more songs.
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tubularbills Offline




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Posted: Sep. 23 2005, 00:08

instrumental all the way. not a fan of the lyrical stuff at all.

if lyrics are going to be used, i really only like the spoken word [something like Far Above the Clouds, and Tubular Bells] or random chants [like in Let there be Light or The Source of Secrets].

actual songs, like Man in the Rain, etc... i'm not a fan of at all.

so yeah, bring on the pianos and guitars, but leave the chorus at home. heh.


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familyjules Offline




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Posted: Sep. 23 2005, 05:55

I do like some of his songs, but the long instrumentals are the thing he does that makes him stand out from the crowd.  That's what he does/did best.  Liek I said, I like some of the songs, but I don't need them.  Ommadawn, on the other hand, well I couldn't imagine life without it!

Jules


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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Sep. 23 2005, 06:23

Interesting reading through the posts thinking about how I would respond and then coming across my post from a year ago and reading my own thoughts. The thing about Mikes songs is that they are too structured, too perfect, which makes them boring. When he does an instrumental he sees perfection in creating surprises, making several things all happening at once blend together like your head with the pillow. With songs his quest for perfection seems to inspire a whole different way of thinking, it's like he is colouring in a picture and all he can focus on is not going outside the line. Does that make any sense? I'd be curious what a song he wrote now would be like, the others were all so obviously 80's and when he ventured out of that with Earth Moving and Heavens Open, the transition did not go all that well according to most fans. I don't know, it would be like trying to imagine Elvis performing today, would he do the same stuff, something completely different and be as great now as he was then, or something completely different and really suck at it. Mikes songs certainly are just as much signature Mike as his instrumentals, but the instrumentals come from another place, whether it's a place of suffering or a place of complete freedom, only Mike truly knows.

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