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Topic: Intervention de Mike Oldfield sur le p2p, Je ne suis pas entièrement daccord< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Leam Offline




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Posted: May 06 2004, 16:55

Je ne suis pa entièrement d'accrord avec Mike Oldfield: Je l'ai découvert (ou plutôt je me suis rapelé de lui) en écoutant la radio
Dés lors, n'avant que de bonsouvenirs de lui, je vais sur emule et télécharge toute sa discogrphie, voir si ce qu'il a fait n'est pas mal!!!
Heureuse surpris, j'en tombe fan (au mécontantement de mes parents)
Je cour doncun mois plus tard à la fnac et au virgin megastore de paris pour m'acheter tout ses albums!!!
J'ai désormé en vrai et sur mon ordinateur (ce qui est légal) la presque totalité de ses albums!!!
En effet, grâce a internet, je découvre des albums que je n'ai pas de ce super auteur, musicien, compositeur, inerprète!!!!!!
Je suis désormais à la recherche des ses inedites :laugh:  :)
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 06 2004, 17:38

Nice story, Leam - I suspect a lot of people buy albums after having heard music by downloading it on the internet, though I can't say I've heard of many people who've bought all of an artists's albums at once (at least, not with an artist who has recorded as many as Mike has)!

Can I ask you to post in English in future though (or at least try and provide a translation alongside the French) - it's the only language which is common to all of the visitors to this site, so posting in English assures that everyone will understand what you're saying :) Merci beaucoup!
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Leam Offline




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Posted: May 07 2004, 07:32

Sorry!!!!
but I wanted to react as fast as possible!!! this interwiev of mike oldfield had me disappointed...
And i like to know no what the position about that of people....  

afflicted once more for this English message
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 07 2004, 09:50

No problem :)

You know, Mike says all sorts of things in interviews - he seems to change his opinion every few weeks! In his last interview (on BBC Radio 6), he reportedly said that he doesn't mind file sharing as long as people buy the albums and, because of that, he will make sure his next album is not copy protected.
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Leam Offline




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Posted: May 07 2004, 15:22

lol
It's an other thing
When i buy a cd which are well, i burn it, to not use the original...
For the Tubular 2003, it had not been a problem to burn it...
I enjoy what he said!!!!!

If you have other information could you prevent me ?
Thx
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Spinne Offline




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Posted: May 08 2004, 13:37

Quote (Korgscrew @ May 07 2004, 09:50)
In his last interview (on BBC Radio 6), he reportedly said that he doesn't mind file sharing as long as people buy the albums.

Do you know if this interview is transcribed somewhere?

About that topic of have a copy (from internet or other source) I have to say that I used to have a copy of some records on tapes and once I have checked they were good enough I used to buy the records. The same happens nowadays with internet, I know a lot of people that download the albums from internet to check if it's worth it to buy the CD. Usually the singles aren't representative of the full album (as happens with To Be Free and Tr3s Lunas to mention one example) and some people wants to hear the full thing before investing his money on it (if CDs were cheaper, but every time they are more and more expensive).
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 08 2004, 16:21

Covenant on the newsgroup provided a summary. He has a recording but seems to be having difficulty in reducing its size from an 83mb mp3 file...

Unfortunately I can't help you any more than that.
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Leam Offline




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Posted: May 08 2004, 17:42

Thx

But an another things! Today they are toking about the burn of the cd and emule and kazaa!But before there was the copying of the cassette!! ;)
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 08 2004, 18:31

Yes, there was, and they said that home copying was killing music. I used to know people who had huge collections of home copied cassettes.

However, they do have reasons to be more worried about the newer methods:

CDR allows a pretty much perfect copy to be made (there'll most likely always be a few minor errors, but they'll be so small as to be insignificant) - cassette never managed that, although a really well recorded cassette could be fairly listenable (and likely good enough for most people - mp3 isn't perfect either, especially at the lower rates usually used for sharing music, but it's still hugely popular).

File sharing is I think far more widespread, because it allows someone to download just about any song they want and get it fairly much instantly. With cassettes, you'd have to know someone who had the album, who'd then have to take the time to make a copy in real time onto cassette (unlike CDs which can be ripped to hard disc in just a fraction of the time it would take to play the song), so it wasn't quite as easy. Also, it only needs one person in the world to buy a CD and file share its contents, and everyone else in the world on the file sharing network can get it - with cassette copying, there was a limit to the number of copies that could realistically be distributed from one album (especially with an LP which would wear out if it was played too often!;), as it relied on someone physically making and handing over each copy (and unlike with CDR, making a copy from those copies would see a fairly large drop in quality).

How much are they losing to digital piracy? Perhaps not as much as they claim - I read a very interesting analysis of figures from the RIAA which showed that the real figure was something like $200 million - rather less than the $4 billion they claimed, though still a lot. I'll see if I can find it again.

My personal feeling is that it's the record industry that's killing music...
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Leam Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 05:47

Your right! :)
But I wanted to speak about front ...
I do not say that the piratege music does not have there nothing to do in the falls Cd sales... But musical creation is very low in moment !!! And the DVD are coming and explosing!!!!!
I have all of (i think) the dvd of Mike too!!
Is this truth that a new album of Mike Oldfiled was going to leave?
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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 07:05

I remember the home taping is killing music thing , on the inner sleave of album covers there were skull and cross-bone warnings of the doom it would create.In fact at that time cassette copies were a bit hit and miss even if you had good equipment it was hard to get good results, you know if the album had faults the tape got the faults tape hiss was always there and dolby made everything muffled.So this would in my opinion ,if I liked the music enough,would probably go out and buy the album, today though downloads can be perfect and the temptation not to buy may creep in ,not to forget cd sleave notes can be copied as well.For me I would copy lets say an oldie single rather than pay full price for the compilation it it may be on.I also remember when they said video would kill the film industry.

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I, ON THE OTHER HAND. AM A VICTIM OF YOUR CARNIVOUROUS LUNAR ACTIVITY.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 09:28

On the subject of that interview: At least he sometimes seems aware of his own contradictions regarding technology and music. I've always wondered just how 'aware' Mike is of his own massive paradox's. If he's going to hit the studio again 'with a vengence' then fantastic but he'd better come up with something of greater musical value than that Meastro music he wrote, he hit an all time low with that. It has to be said though that his talk of being the first person to use a completely synthetic vocalsit doesn't fill me with hope at all, I've never heard such a naff idea in my life. Other artists have talked over the years about using a synthetic vocalists in music and the reason this hasn't happened to any great success is that it goes against everything that singing is about, ie soul, feeling, emotion etc. Then again these things have been faily lacking in various degrees from all of Mike's recent work so maybe it's just a logical step for him to use a synthetic vocalsit.
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 10:10

The virtual vocalist thing is something I've never imagined Mike would be interested on using it.I'd be very disappointed if he uses on full songs,but on some vocal parts(like the ones Sally Oldfield did on TB),it's not going to be a huge problem really.

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"But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014

"I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 13:02

Mike using a synthetic vocalist? I didn't know it was serious! I don't know what fun Mike finds in synthesising his music more and more, but I wouldn't like to know, either.

I have also come to the conclusion that it's the record companies that are killing music. The RIAA is a huge mafia, a bunch of inescrupulous bastards with no morals who try the lowest tricks to get more money.

Fred Durst is also killing music with his cover of The Who. Abysmal!

Ahh, I remember the sweet days of casseteing up an LP. Not only we would borrow others' LP's and record them in cassete, but we'd also record our own LP's in cassete to listen to it on trips. Hee hee, good memories, those.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 16:01

Tati wrote ' I'd be very disappointed if he uses it on full songs but on some vocal parts its not going to be a problem really'.

I presume it's these other vocal parts he's talking about using it on. I can't imagine a computer rendered 'voice' singing lyrics acceptably well (yet) It's one thing using a synthesizer to produce great sounding musical textures, obviously a lot of people including Mike do that all the time. But it's entirely another matter to use a synthesizer to simply reproduce a sub standard version of an existing sound simply for the sake of doing it. Mike did exactly this with that godawful sax sound on TresLunas, and he's obviously showing similar ideas with this synthesized vocalsit. It's great to see his inability to make the right creative decisions in full force even at this early stage, I can't wait to hear it NOT.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 16:52

You can make up your own minds what you think about the vocaloid technology which Mike was referring to by visiting the Zero G website where they have audio demos featuring their two vocaloid plugins LOLA and LEON. Yet to come is Miriam, a virtual Miriam Stockley (seriously...it's not even April any more...).

I think its best use is going to be for creating surreal 'singing synthesiser' type sounds, not unlike what can be done with vocoders (though it's a different type of sound). I do find it rather eery though - the demo 'forever' somehow sounds to me like how I'd imagine dead people might sing. Trying to use it in place of a real lead vocal seems to me to be doomed to failure, and would also seem to me to be the ultimate in losing sight of what making music ought to be about - I always saw singing as a way of the singer to express emotions, and programming a robot singer to mimic emotion would seem quite a strange idea to me.

To be honest, I don't think the quality of the vocaloid voices sounds an awful lot better than the singing MacinTalk voices, which must be about 10 years old now (vocaloid seems a lot better when doing aahs and oohs, but for words, there seems to not so much difference). There's been a shareware sequencer around for a good while that's allowed the Mac voices to be used to sing lyrics. Certainly vocaloid is a step up in quality (I think the MacinTalk voices were possibly purely synthesised, though I think  the MacinTalk Pro ones were sampled), but it doesn't seem like quite as much of a revolutionary leap as some would seem to think it is.

Whether virtual vocalists work for Mike or not is going to depend on what he does with them - he has the potential to either do something fantastically groundbreaking, or something cheap and gimmicky. I'm not really certain that his quest for innovation is going in the right direction though - I can't say that using a new synthesiser plugin really makes an album innovative...
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 17:05

Cheers for the link Richard. Downloaded the first demo MP3 and it sounds very unnerving and as you say kind of goes against the grain of what music is about. The whole idea is just so naff in the first place, this is where I really start to question mans relationship with technology.

I sincerely hope Mike doesn't go down the road of using this but it wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if he does.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 17:10

It seems very much his kind of thing to me - as soon as I saw the product, I wondered how long it would be before Mike was using it, given that he seems to pride himself on having all the latest software plugins.

I've found a soundclip of the Mac singing software, VocalWriter. Certainly not quite the quality of vocaloid, but I think close enough to show that the idea's nothing new.
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Jammer Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 17:27

Part of what gave Tubular Bells 2 and 3 a modern feel was the fact that real human vocals were used. It would sound OK if it was used for atmospheric backing vocals like the sampled choirs in TL. Mike's worked with great vocalists before, most of which would be happy to work with him again. I'd rather have Pepsi singing on Mike's next album than a computer. He could do lots more with Miriam Stockley - TMB hinted at some good things even if it sounded a bit too similar to Adeamus

Interestingly US professor and composer of early electronic works Charles Dodge did a similar thing with very crude synthesised Stephen Hawking-like 'vocals'. You can hear his Speech songs <here>. These are more like experimental works rather than something serious. Sorry if I scared anybody with their surealism ;)
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 09 2004, 17:30

Now, considering that Mike seems to be interested by matters of time and space, perhaps he could book Stephen Hawking and have his engineer tweak Stephen's voice synthesiser so it'll sing. A(capella) Brief History of Time - now that would be innovative :D
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