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ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: June 23 2011, 12:35 This should be fun. I'm looking forward to Dan's opinion especially. I'm not going to tell you what I think yet, although those who know me can probably guess. Back to top

Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1868 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: June 23 2011, 14:02 Depends on the country/culture. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 23 2011, 14:45 If I have to choose how my tax money is spent, I'd rather see it spent in saving people's lives, instead of in killing people from other countries. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

jacen Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: May 2011 Posted: June 23 2011, 15:10 I'm struggling to come up with anything better than Olivier. I feel that in an idealised scenario, it should be, but who lives in one of those? Arguably, if you pay into a private health care fund and have reduced contributions from your pay, it could balance out over a lifetime. Back to top

ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: June 23 2011, 15:46 Quote (Olivier @ June 23 2011, 14:02) Depends on the country/culture. Only if you consider rights to be dependent on country/culture as opposed to being inalienable. I'm not talking about privileges people in certain cultures have here. Back to top

ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: June 23 2011, 15:50 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 23 2011, 14:45) If I have to choose how my tax money is spent, I'd rather see it spent in saving people's lives, instead of in killing people from other countries. Absolutely. Better yet, however, for taxes to be lessened to the point that they are only used for absolute necessities - keeping a drastically reduced government together, keeping roads driveable etc. And I don't think a country should be killing anybody in other countries - I believe in non-interference, so the military should only be used in self-defense, or against a global threat (such as Nazi Germany). Guys I'm looking at this through an American lens. I understand that people in other countries have different ideas about these things. Back to top

3Wheeler Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: Aug. 2007 Posted: June 23 2011, 17:19 Yeah it only costs a Dollar ...   http://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-robs-bank-for--1-.html -------------- We're Flying Aeroflot, We've Got Reservations. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 23 2011, 21:06 Quote (Syd B @ June 23 2011, 12:35) This should be fun. I'm looking forward to Dan's opinion especially. I'm not going to tell you what I think yet, although those who know me can probably guess. Why shore an' ah've ree-tired from pheelosophy now. Spend mah time on th' important thangs, like a game o' poker   Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 23 2011, 21:21 Quote (Syd B @ June 23 2011, 15:46) Quote (Olivier @ June 23 2011, 14:02) Depends on the country/culture. Only if you consider rights to be dependent on country/culture as opposed to being inalienable. I'm not talking about privileges people in certain cultures have here. ... except to say that many people do think all values and truths depend on culture. The way to puzzle them is to ask: "Does the statement that values depend on culture itself depend on culture?" Now where's that Coyote...   Back to top

ex member 137 Group: Members Posts: 370 Joined: Feb. 2009 Posted: June 24 2011, 04:21 Quote (nightspore @ June 24 2011, 03:21) Quote (Syd B @ June 23 2011, 15:46) Quote (Olivier @ June 23 2011, 14:02) Depends on the country/culture. Only if you consider rights to be dependent on country/culture as opposed to being inalienable. I'm not talking about privileges people in certain cultures have here. ... except to say that many people do think all values and truths depend on culture. The way to puzzle them is to ask: "Does the statement that values depend on culture itself depend on culture?" Now where's that Coyote...   Ah'm here puzzlin on what to say. Here in France we have possibly the best Health Care in the world, but, we have to pay for it. I believe its possible to have the same everywhere if less money was wasted on arms, governments, and all the other leaches that we allow to survive. Christmas this year I fell down a flight of stairs and dislocated my thumb badly. In Canada. Arrive at hospital in absolute agony and before they even took my name or asked what the problem was they demanded 750 dollars up front. Luckily they took a credit card. After treatment I was advised to have a X ray to confirm the thumb was n't broken. Arrived home only to recieve a demand for another 250 dollars for the Xray. We also recieved an itemised bill and was surprised to find that the treatment room had cost us 500 dollars. Health care I couldn't afford on a regular basis. I wonder how much suffering goes on round the world simply because people can't afford treatment. Its a very sick planet. Back to top

Michael Hilton Group: Members Posts: 255 Joined: Oct. 2007 Posted: June 24 2011, 06:00 Here in Australia we also pay for it with high taxes, but private insurance is extra, along with dental, optical and specialists etc. My stepson was in the Navy, so we also have Naval Health for the whole family..... un thates good!   Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 07:17 Quote (Michael Hilton @ June 24 2011, 06:00) Here in Australia we also pay for it with high taxes, but private insurance is extra, along with dental, optical and specialists etc. My stepson was in the Navy, so we also have Naval Health for the whole family..... un thates good!   You're covered if anything happens with that electric fence then   Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 24 2011, 08:42 Quote (Syd B @ June 23 2011, 15:50) Absolutely. Better yet, however, for taxes to be lessened to the point that they are only used for absolute necessities - keeping a drastically reduced government together, keeping roads driveable etc. I believe the government should be responsible for, at least, everything that is strategic for the country. Roads, water supply, electricity, communications, security, public health and education, in my view, are absolutely strategic; the government should either own it or keep a very close supervision on it. But then, everything in a country can be considered strategic to a degree -- even entertainment. Quote And I don't think a country should be killing anybody in other countries - I believe in non-interference, so the military should only be used in self-defense, or against a global threat (such as Nazi Germany). Yes, absolutely. War, sometimes, is inevitable. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 08:59 Don't forget, though, that government is a construction of the people, to better carry out their will. I wish people would tend to their own affairs more instead of relying on others. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on home education (since you mentioned education)? Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 09:14 Quote (dunlooser @ June 24 2011, 09:21) I wonder how much suffering goes on round the world simply because people can't afford treatment. Its a very sick planet. I know. It must be miserable if you're ill and can't afford treatment. Here in the UK we probably take our free National Health Service for granted - but we're very lucky! We pay National Insurance contributions - automatically deducted from our salaries - (used for welfare system, NHS and pensions), but it's not a large amount. I've lived and worked in the US as a nurse and saw first hand the chilling reality of how their health system operated - basically wanting your money first and foremost, before they'll even look at you. Even in the UK non-residents will get emergency care - free at the time it's given and you sort out payment later - which is more humane. Things might be different there these days - doesn't look like it in Canada though. The only thing we don't cover is dentists - there's only a few NHS dentists around these days - and it still turns out expensive. I've got to say though... talking of culture - the U.S was a culture shock! -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 09:30 Quote (wiga @ June 24 2011, 09:14) Quote (dunlooser @ June 24 2011, 09:21) I wonder how much suffering goes on round the world simply because people can't afford treatment. Its a very sick planet. I know. It must be miserable if you're ill and can't afford treatment. Here in the UK we probably take our free National Health Service for granted - but we're very lucky! We pay National Insurance contributions - automatically deducted from our salaries - (used for welfare system, NHS and pensions), but it's not a large amount. I've lived and worked in the US as a nurse and saw first hand the chilling reality of how their health system operated - basically wanting your money first and foremost, before they'll even look at you. Even in the UK non-residents will get emergency care - free at the time it's given and you sort out payment later - which is more humane. Things might be different there these days - doesn't look like it in Canada though. The only thing we don't cover is dentists - there's only a few NHS dentists around these days - and it still turns out expensive. I've got to say though... talking of culture - the U.S was a culture shock! I'd heard the NHS was quite bad - they're always making jokes about it on British comedies. The health system in Australia doesn't cover teeth either, for some reason. Consequently a lot of young people have terrible teeth, as a lot of the popular drugs of course cause them to fall out. I'm quite lucky with my teeth: they're in very good condition, and I haven't been to a dentist since 1986. Back to top

ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 10:22 We're sort of drifting away from the issue here, which is are people really entitled to health care? To put it another way, does a person have the right to walk into a doctor's office and demand to be cured of whatever illness/injury they are afflicted with? This is what I am curious of your opinions about. Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 10:45 Quote (Syd B @ June 24 2011, 15:22) does a person have the right to walk into a doctor's office and demand to be cured of whatever illness/injury they are afflicted with? This is what I am curious of your opinions about. Yes. You have to make an appointment first, and you might have a bit of a wait for some conditions, but all serious illnesses should be treated. It pretty much works that way here for the Brits - rich. poor, young and old - are all provided for. The NHS is a loving culture.   -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 10:54 Quote (nightspore @ June 24 2011, 14:30) I haven't been to a dentist since 1986. ...1986...  blimey 25 years! Have you not even had a check up? Yeah we pommes like to whinge as you know (about the NHS) - but basically we don't know we're born!   -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 24 2011, 11:03 Quote (wiga @ June 24 2011, 10:54) Quote (nightspore @ June 24 2011, 14:30) I haven't been to a dentist since 1986. ...1986...  blimey 25 years! Have you not even had a check up? Yeah we pommes like to whinge as you know (about the NHS) - but basically we don't know we're born!   I lost my faith in dentists when it became apparent that they were inventing problems simply as a way of drumming up money. You'd make an initial appointment, and of course a cavity would be found. But it couldn't be fixed at the time - a new appointment had to be made. And an appointment later just to make sure that all was well. My father has very good teeth and I've inherited that genetic quality from him. Back to top

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