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Guest Unregistered Posted: Feb. 26 2009, 17:56 First, sorry if this is in the wrong category....Maybe it should be in Mike styles instead?....well...here we go.. I´m not a musician but my understanding of a conductor is that he shows a large group of musicians the "timing" of the musical number so everyone knows where they are in the number and when to expect things to happen. It could be if a musician played a high sounding instrument like drums, maybe he can´t hear what others are playing and are using the conductor as  a beacon (hope you understand).. And then, when I look at some of MO´s concert videos for example Tubular Bells II/Millenium Bell - he sits in front and to the side of the conductor (Robyn Smith) and he has no trouble at all following the music with his back to the choir and the other musicians, so my question is,- is MO so gifted that he doesn´t need a conductor or is just because he wrote the music and knows everything about the timing and things to come? Is it then lack of practice/rehearsal from the other musicians that makes the conductor necessary? By the way...MO have worked with Robyn Smith many times and he seems very very talented...he has conducted, played along on instruments and co-written some songs (light & shade as I remember)...but I don´t see/hear him anywhere...anybody knows any of his works/collaborations? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Feb. 26 2009, 19:03 Priz, it's not that uncommon to find classical, orchestral recordings that don't use a conductor. But yes, familiarity with the music is a big plus! Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Feb. 26 2009, 20:29 Quote (prisoner.of.the.dark.sky @ Feb. 26 2009, 17:56) And then, when I look at some of MO´s concert videos for example Tubular Bells II/Millenium Bell - he sits in front and to the side of the conductor (Robyn Smith) and he has no trouble at all following the music with his back to the choir and the other musicians, so my question is,- is MO so gifted that he doesn´t need a conductor or is just because he wrote the music and knows everything about the timing and things to come? Every concerto that I've ever seen played live always has the soloist "ahead" of the conductor, not facing him. According to what I know, it's mostly because the soloist acts like a "second" conductor, and the orchestra has to follow his cues as well. That's the nature of the music; the orchestra needing a conductor doesn't have to do with the musicians' skill or talent, but with the idea that the orchestra works as a single, unbreakable unit. And when there's a soloist, he isn't "part" of the orchestra, but a separate part that counters it. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Harmono Group: Members Posts: 759 Joined: May 2005 Posted: Feb. 26 2009, 20:58 Like you say, it's the timing that's important and also the dynamics. Tempo changes and keeping the right tempo are often very important, especially if the work is very complex. And even more importantly if it's a famous piece. You don't want to play Beethoven in 'wrong' tempo, otherwise the critics will stab you to death. The players don't have know the work thoroughly, but the conductor must. In classical music the conductor has the say, they do follow him or her, but also the score. Basicly a good conductor can make an orchestra better but not much, especially if they aren't skilled musicians. On the other hand a crappy 'waver' can screw up everything, even if the musicians know what they're doing. As regarding Mike, I believe the conductor is there more for show than to actually make any difference. Back to top

Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1868 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Feb. 27 2009, 00:12 air drummer Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Feb. 27 2009, 02:50 i'd have to agree with Harmono (very nice pic by the way.If i'm not mistaken it's the Vintage tribute to Clapton's Cream era SG painted by The Fool in March 1967.....anorak alert!.  I really doubt the Edinburgh Castle gig needed a conductor so i guess it's more for show.Everything in the concert was timed using click tracks and the musician were extremly skilled session musicians.  And Mike himself certainly wouldn't need a conductor as he wrote it and knows every part as he played it originally.  It does give it a certained percieved weight to the proceedings though. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Harmono Group: Members Posts: 759 Joined: May 2005 Posted: Feb. 27 2009, 09:59 Quote (The Caveman @ Feb. 27 2009, 08:50) (very nice pic by the way.If i'm not mistaken it's the Vintage tribute to Clapton's Cream era SG painted by The Fool in March 1967.....anorak alert!. Googling told me that that's what it is. I just found the pic by accident. So it's Clapton's guitar then, cool. He's allright. Saw him in concert in 2001. Nice gig, although the band sounded a bit tired at times. Maybe they should have had a conductor on stage.   Back to top

captainjjb Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: Feb. 2006 Posted: Feb. 27 2009, 15:34 the conductor WAS needed at Edinburgh certainly... and probably at the other gigs.  Lots of the musicians would have appreciated the confidence of being cue'd in. They were largely playing an unknown piece, unlike us today who have the advantage of knowing it like the back of our hand.  I play in an orchestra as a flautist and sometimes percussionist.  Even then if I played at an MO gig I'd rather have a conductor to guide me alongside the musical manuscript even if I know the music well. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 04 2009, 07:33 @Harmono.Vintage make some nice guitars.Trev Wilkinson,who is something of a guru,took comtrol of Vintage a few years back and really turned them from a budget brand with nothing really to diferentiate them from all the other budget brands into something really very good with excellent hardware.The guitar in the picture is a very good copy of Clapton's Cream era SG.He gave it to The Fool to paint along with Jack Bruces Fender 6 string bass and a couple of Bass Drum heads from Ginger Baker before they went to America for the first time.The fool also created a new wrdrobe for them too.All satin trousers and shirts to match.If you look at the cover of Strange Brew-the best of Cream they're all playing the painted guitars/drums. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

BlueTape Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: Dec. 2000 Posted: Mar. 04 2009, 19:06 I, like many other musicially minded people gain a hightend sense of timing and thinking when  music sequences are involved.. a perfect example is to watch mike in many live video's where he automatically taps his feet with the way the timing flows, the next time you watch a video of mike you can see it, if the feet don't move, the timing is ticking in the mind! But I always find it interesting to see conductors on stage with mike ... he will never need one but always good for other artists to sync well with his mind! and work -------------- my music website www.bluetape.co.uk Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 05 2009, 07:49 i think pretty much all musicians do this.It's just a natural thing.It's not always to keep time though as that's just something you do without really thinking.  Funnily enough though there's a section in the Exposed DVD during Incantations where the orchestra are playing a figure in 5/4 and Mike can be seen counting to himself. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Mar. 05 2009, 12:21 Of course you need a conductor Tubes! Simple fizziks. Electromotive force cannot push electrons through anything but a conductor, eg, copper. Without conductors music as well as society in general would collapse like a wet taco. Don't believe me? Watch the movie "City of Ember" which I highly recommend... Jimbo -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 10 2009, 10:19 Oh dear.Scatterplot has cabin fever.Glad to see Eddie back though. The jury's still out on the conductor question though.The Exposed tour assembled a massive band and not a conductor in sight.Even for the classical guys.I really do think that Edinburg was just for show.The whole band had click tracks towork off for cues which negates the need for a conductor entirely. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Mar. 10 2009, 11:17 Cabin fever, yes. My job consists 80% of pure boredom in front of a PC....for recreation. While blind kids sleep. Good news Tubes, Got 75% of "her" stuff out via liftgate about 20 minutes ago. The rest goes Sat. I sing my lease Friday! Then I'm off 9 days for spring break! YEEHAH! But, to clean, and organize my move for Apr. 1.....Have fun with your conductors. Don't forget Iron and Zinc...... -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Mar. 10 2009, 11:20 Did I say "sing lease". Hmm, I typed it right. I will sing the lease to the tune of "The Deep Sound". I'm out of here with Eddy in 3 weeks. -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

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