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Topic: MAGMA versus MIKE OLDFIELD, Who's the real composer< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
sarujuu Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 12:51

Listen the extract :
Tubular Bells (intro Intro composed by Mike Oldfield on 1973 )

La dawotsin (Intro composed by Magma on 1973 ?)

Interview may 2005 with Christian Wander
(from http://members.aol.com/sleeplessz/batmag.htm)

After "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh", the band reached its maturity. But "Kohntarkosz", the following album, explored totally new musical realms ?  

It's a pretty sad story but things have to be said. A man called Mike Oldfield did steal my music - to be more precise, extracts from "Mekanik" and "La Dawotsin".

When we recorded "Mekanik Kommandoh" in 1972, Oldfield was waiting for recording "Tubular bells", which is in fact an extract from my music. I played this music for him, without guessing that h would steal it for him.

When I saw the film "The Exorcist", like a "good boy" I found its music fantastic. Of course it was : that was the music I used to play. I didn't make the relation between the two musics at once. But, one day one of the Magma's member told me "Mike oldfield, he's the guy who was there when we composed Mekanik Kommandoh". In fact, he hasn't composed something else in the same vein because he had not the end of the music. Since this film, many film scores were composed that way - which is typically magma's one - and I couldn't play my music because I could have been accused of copying the others. That really drove me crazy.

At this time, I had composed the following music of "Mekanik kommandoh" but, as I couldn't play it, I had to explore new harmonic realms, which were a little bit too complicated for my capacities - unlike Mekanik - and that was "Kohntarkosz".
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c_haese Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 13:44

This has been discussed before here and here.

It's interesting that there now is a sound clip of the piece that Mike allegedly stole. Maybe I am a cloth-eared nincompoop after all, but I don't hear anything in there that sounds like TB. Well, other than the darkish mood, but that surely can't be grounds for plagiarism.

-Carsten
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 14:22

Ignore "The Exorcist" theme.... This quoted bit of "Magma" does not sound like Exorcist to me. If anything, it sounds a lot like the first few minutes of side TWO of "'Tubular Bells": hardly a famous "signature moment" of Oldfield music....and Magma could not have heard any of Side 2 when seeing "The Exorcist". Does anyone agree with me?

--------------
"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 14:40

I know that I've said this lots & lots of time before, but IMHO the theme from Profondo Rosso [Deep Red] by Claudio Simonetti (Goblin) sounds much more like TB than this Magma bit. :) As for the alleged 'stealing', I agree with Hiawatha above here on all points, especially on thinking that the Magma guy is utterly wrong. :)

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 15:25

I wouldn't say the guy is wrong, though I'd say he was probably exaggerating. I know a lot of people who are into a lot of music and, given the immense popularity of Tubular Bells's opening theme, I have never heard of any "connection" between it and Magma. I don't doubt that the Tubular Bells theme is similar to whatever Wander came up with, or that Mike was influenced by it (but tell me, the enlightened ones, didn't Mike come up with the riff way before he went into The Manor?), or that it was a coincidence. But just because Wander said Mike stole the melody from him doesn't mean it's true. Maybe the melodies are similar and Wander thought of plagiarism, I dunno. I won't call him a liar. I just think accusations like that are a bit too dangerous.

Come on, musical coincidences are common. In 2001 or so, I wrote a song (it's on Musics For Highways, btw) that has a small, constant piano line. And when I heard "The Velvet Underground & Nico" for the first time a few weeks ago, I found out the piano line is fairly similar to the glockenspiel theme on 'Sunday Morning'. And I even came up with a piano melody I used on another song of mine, only to find out that Genesis used it in 'Anyway' from "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" almost 30 years before. I swear I'm not making anything up here.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 17:01

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 15 2005, 21:25)
In 2001 or so, I wrote a song (it's on Musics For Highways, btw) that has a small, constant piano line. And when I heard "The Velvet Underground & Nico" for the first time a few weeks ago, I found out the piano line is fairly similar to the glockenspiel theme on 'Sunday Morning'.

This is funny, Sir M... Way back in 1990, I heard Elton John's "Daniel" for the very first time [I swear this is true! :D], and learned to play it. In August 1992, after almost one year since I last heard that song, I was in Canada, I had a keyboard to doodle on and I came up with a tune. I played it to a cousin of mine, who lives there, and he said: «This is "Daniel" by Elton John». :D What's even funnier is that the more I re-play my tune (I've done various arrangements of it since then), the more I realize that "Daniel" doesn't sound at all like it, not even remotely - not to my ears, at least. :) But if my cousin said what he said, something must have surely, even subconsciously, slipped in. ;)  

Back on topic: What I meant, above here, is not that Mr. Wander is a liar, I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I meant that I think he is wrong, because I think that there are no recognizable similarities between Mike's music and his. Although Mike (like me) may certainly have been influenced - by the Magma piece and by many other things, Bach in primis ;), I don't think he stole anything at all from Magma.


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: June 15 2005, 20:14

If Magma are so sure on this, why haven't they taken Mike to court yet? The fact that he seems to be just talk is slightly suspicious to me.

The only bit of Tubular Bells that is in the Exorcist is the piano intro, right? Like most of you here, I can't hear any similiarities between the Magna sample and the piano intro.


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Posted: June 16 2005, 07:44

To be honest, the only real similarity I could find, was that it sounded a bit like 'Early Stages' from the TB2 single where the tempo starts to speed up. As for TB1, they both have a piano as one of the instruments, and that's about it as far both tunes go. Also, the singer sounds like Robert John Godfrey, on a really bad day.
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: June 16 2005, 08:08

Quote (raven4x4x @ June 15 2005, 20:14)
If Magma are so sure on this, why haven't they taken Mike to court yet? The fact that he seems to be just talk is slightly suspicious to me.

As a media-hyped trial, this would be interesting. The radio stations would be playing "Guilty" or "Innocent" when reporting on the story.

--------------
"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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Posted: June 16 2005, 08:32

Quote (hiawatha @ June 16 2005, 08:08)
Quote (raven4x4x @ June 15 2005, 20:14)
If Magma are so sure on this, why haven't they taken Mike to court yet? The fact that he seems to be just talk is slightly suspicious to me.

As a media-hyped trial, this would be interesting. The radio stations would be playing "Guilty" or "Innocent" when reporting on the story.

I think the whole thing would be thrown out of court the moment the guy said he watched the Exorcist and didn't recognise something "he" wrote, and that it was someone else that pointed it out to him that they thought it sounded similar.

"Your Honor. I have never owned a dog, and I have never wanted to own a dog, but my friend told me that if I ever had owned a dog, it would have been just like the dog my neighbour owns. Therefore, I'm demanding she hands over my property!"
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sarujuu Offline




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Posted: June 16 2005, 10:09

In past, on interview, Mike Oldfield explain how he composed the Tubular Bells's intro. With a piano he has played an extract of Bach' music (Toccata), after he play the same track but in opposite order...and Tubular Bells was born  :D .

I can make a similar experience, it's easy after tou give you a tablature of Back and opposite track : Tubular Bells's intro.
So, wait a moment  :p
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sarujuu Offline




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Posted: June 16 2005, 11:25

Mike Oldfield Versus Johan Sebastian Bach

Toccata And Fugue
toccata from Bach (entirely)

Extract of the same track at 25th mesure
Un extrait du meme morceau a la 25eme mesure

L'extrait de Tubular Bells (l'intro)
Tubular Bells (intro).mid

And this Toccata and Tubular Bells both
Tubular Bells and Toccata.mid

Conclusion : How I can make a morse message to write "F**ck off Christian Vander".
:)  :)
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Trinidad Offline




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Posted: June 20 2005, 05:12

Mmmhh... I downloaded the Magma song, and I expected to hear something completely different to TB. But, for me, it really sounds very similar, more than Bach. At least, it's very curious.
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Satyagraha Offline




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Posted: June 20 2005, 08:43

I don't think this qualifies as plagiarism, but the two are really very similar in melodic movement, in metrum and in mood. But the themes are used in very different contexts. I'd really like to hear the rest of La Dawotsin, though.

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Byrði betri berrat maðr brautu at en sé mannvit mikit
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Tansy Offline




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Posted: June 22 2005, 05:01

Quote (sarujuu @ June 15 2005, 12:51)
Listen the extract :
Tubular Bells (intro Intro composed by Mike Oldfield on 1973 )

La dawotsin (Intro composed by Magma on 1973 ?)

Interview may 2005 with Christian Wander
(from http://members.aol.com/sleeplessz/batmag.htm)

After "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh", the band reached its maturity. But "Kohntarkosz", the following album, explored totally new musical realms ?  

It's a pretty sad story but things have to be said. A man called Mike Oldfield did steal my music - to be more precise, extracts from "Mekanik" and "La Dawotsin".

When we recorded "Mekanik Kommandoh" in 1972, Oldfield was waiting for recording "Tubular bells", which is in fact an extract from my music. I played this music for him, without guessing that h would steal it for him.

When I saw the film "The Exorcist", like a "good boy" I found its music fantastic. Of course it was : that was the music I used to play. I didn't make the relation between the two musics at once. But, one day one of the Magma's member told me "Mike oldfield, he's the guy who was there when we composed Mekanik Kommandoh". In fact, he hasn't composed something else in the same vein because he had not the end of the music. Since this film, many film scores were composed that way - which is typically magma's one - and I couldn't play my music because I could have been accused of copying the others. That really drove me crazy.

At this time, I had composed the following music of "Mekanik kommandoh" but, as I couldn't play it, I had to explore new harmonic realms, which were a little bit too complicated for my capacities - unlike Mekanik - and that was "Kohntarkosz".

I think this is a ridiculous claim & what an insult to MO.
The  compostition (not spelling error by the way) isn't at all like Tubular Bells.
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moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: June 22 2005, 05:35

I think Mr Vander is the Cloth Eared Nincompoop here ;) .  La Dawotsin sounds different to Tubular Bells.  If La Dawotsin was composed in 1973, the Demo Version Of Tubular Bells dates back to 1971, predating Magma by two years.
Mr Vander I find your claims ostentatious and totally ridicuolus    :p .


--------------
I'm going slightly mad,
It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad

If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come.


I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health


"Part time hippy"

I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: June 22 2005, 06:34

Quote (moonchildhippy @ June 22 2005, 06:35)
I think Mr Vander is the Cloth Eared Nincompoop here ;) .  La Dawotsin sounds different to Tubular Bells.  If La Dawotsin was composed in 1973, the Demo Version Of Tubular Bells dates back to 1971, predating Magma by two years.
Mr Vander I find your claims ostentatious and totally ridicuolus    :p .

+1
The Tubular Bells Demo proves it all!


--------------
"But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014

"I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011
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Ratty Offline




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Posted: June 22 2005, 16:47

Just listened to this Magma chappie!!! it doesnt sound anything like tubular bells, and in my own humble opinion, its a load of rubbish too!!! Hows that for bias!!!

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Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells
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sohfar Offline




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Posted: June 22 2005, 19:08

There's something there but very boring! dont ya think. lol

--------------
HEALTH WARNING
This record could be hazardous to the health
of cloth-eared nincompoops. If you suffer from this
condition, consult your Doctor immediately.
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18 replies since June 15 2005, 12:51 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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