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wowser Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Nov. 29 2003, 10:12 as much as i like mike oldfield's music, i often think the production is over the top. ...Distant Earth just sounds tacky in places, and even Tres Lunas sounded a bit dated, like Enigma tracks from 10 years ago. I really like the original Tubular Bells, and worry that the new gloss will take away from the sould of the original - homogenizing it. Maybe the original did have some bum notes and quirks, but it added to the charm. I also think that Alan Rickman was the best instrument instructor out of all the Bell releases, on Bells II. I baulk at the thought of John Cleese doing it -------------- Pointless act! You don't give a five hundred dollar tip to the housekeeper! That's inappropriate! That's inexcusable! Back to top

Wanderer Group: Members Posts: 119 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Dec. 08 2003, 05:27 Mike's production techniques have been a cause for consternation amongst Mike's fans for sometime now. Most of his output since "Songs Of Distant Earth" has been roundly criticised for being overproduced - and many fans also think it's a bit lazy for a virtuoso like Mike to be using synthesizers and sequencers at all. This is not an opinion which I share. I don't think synthesizers are just an easy way out for people who can't be bothered playing a real instrument - rather, I see it as a way of exploring new avenues of sound... creating marvellous audio output that is impossible to achieve with a "normal" instrument. I think that Mike's use of electronic instruments actually add a lot to the atmosphere of "Songs Of Distant Earth" and "Tres Lunas" - and are appropriate to the futuristic themes of both albums. I don't think a purely organic approach to the production would have been appropriate for a novel like "Songs Of Distant Earth". I think the concept actually DEMANDS the use of synthesizers. Plus, I'm not against Mike using synthesizers in his music causes he uses them in an unconventional manner, using them to produce original sounds... and using the electronic instruments alongside conventional instruments on the tracks. So no, I don't think it's too much. But judging by some of the polls, I'm in a minority here... Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Dec. 08 2003, 07:28 Wanderer your exactly right,Songs Of Distant Earth needed the instruments that Mike used,you have to understand that Mike is basically writing film music with that album,because he has to write music that fits with a book,with scenes and chapters that have nothing to do with him,i think if this had just been another Mike album,it might have been a little different,but not much.I have read the book,i read it 3 years after the album came out,and you can hear the references that Mike has made from the book,plus Arthur C Clarke himself loves the album and things Mike did a wonderful job,so if it's good enough for him,it's good enough for me. As for Mike's production,i don't think it's over the top at all,i think he is a good producer,there's no way you can accuse Tres Lunas of being over produced,and i think that it's the production on TB2003 that makes it such a great album in my opinion,i just love the way Mike records accoustic guitar,it sounds so clear,just like he is in the room playing it for you. But the thing that tends to get forgotten a lot,is that you have to remember that Mike does all this on his own,ok,he might have an engineer some time,and a few other musicians like on The Millenium Bell,but more or less he does every bloody thing,i don't think there is another artist that has done so much on his on records over 30 years than Mike Oldfield.So if his production is off according to some people then we can't be to hard on him. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Dec. 08 2003, 08:35 Though I actually agree that valuing production over songwriting isn't a good idea. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Dec. 08 2003, 17:25 No,it is'nt a good idea,there is a LOT of things with production that you can do to a song to make up for the fact that the aong is actually crap!!!.just look at the top 40 singles chart any given week Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Jan. 06 2004, 06:54 Whilst it's undoubtable that Mike is technicaly a very good producer who obviously knows exactly what he's doing I don't think that, in recent years at least, he's been a particularly imaginative one. I would certainly agree with those who say his music since and TB2 lacks any raw edge to it. Obviously on an album like TSODE you don't want that raw quality but on albums like Voyager and Guitars you certainly do, and both those albums suffer greatly from a lack of it. TB2003 does sound a bit over produced to my ears. Mike said that he actualy went back and delibertaly tried to add a bit of rawness to certain sections after he decided it was just to perfect. The problem with that is parts just begin to sound crontrived, sometimes it pays off not to be to deliberate about things. The original TB sounded wonderfull because it all fell together as if by magical accident, TB2003 tries to hard at being something, there's nothing accidental about its production. I don't think theres anything lazy about the use of synths in music generaly though as far as Mike is concerned I would certinly say he's been fairly lazy in the last 10 years of rehashing the same old synth textures and drum sounds. Perhaps lazy is the wrong word here, unimaginative would probably be a better one. Considering what you hear from other artists and considering how cool some of his own 80's synth stuff sounded Mike doesn't seem to research his sounds so much anymore. My biggest wish is for him to knock those synth drum pads on the head and start using decent drum sounds. And get rid of that synth bass aswell, he's a great bass player though from his recent output you'd be excused for not knowing that. Back to top

wowser Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Feb. 18 2004, 14:25 i'm not against his use of synths, per se, but it would be nice if he incorporated them in a less obvious way . I'm thinking of how good Peter Gabriel albums sound. I love Mike's songs, but often ithink he resorts to using the same production he has used for the past 10 years. These days i think acoustic instruments are where it's at. hmm, maybe i should buy mike's 'guitars' album? -------------- Pointless act! You don't give a five hundred dollar tip to the housekeeper! That's inappropriate! That's inexcusable! Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Feb. 18 2004, 15:00 I actually think that Guitars is the biggest example of using the same 'production' as before - I really felt it was a case of him trying to get it to sound like all his other albums (and succeeding) rather than saying "Right, I'm taking a unique approach, how can I use this to make my album sound unique?". My own approach would have been to start with recording the sounds of the guitars then adding guitar synthesisers in the parts which really seemed to need it, which I think would have given a more interesting sound - as it is, it sounds like any other of Mike's recent albums, whether there's more guitar or not. Back to top

wowser Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Feb. 18 2004, 21:30 the idea of guitars is sound, but it sounds like it fell flat -------------- Pointless act! You don't give a five hundred dollar tip to the housekeeper! That's inappropriate! That's inexcusable! Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Feb. 20 2004, 19:20 Yeah, well, OK, albums like TSODE, Guitars and TB2003 may sound a bit too refined, too polished, when compared to the  raw candidness of outbursts like the Caveman in TB 1973 or the climax of Ommadawn part 1, but IMHO it's kinda useless to compare Mike's recent output with what he did in the 1970s, because TB, HR Ommadawn and Incantations are too far back in time. Or, to put it another way, that was then and this is now, and if Mike wants his (old) fans back, how many times can he say he's sorry?   As for 'overproduction': TB 2003 - overproduced? Nah. Stuff like Talkie Walkie by Air or Lost Horizons by Lemon Jelly sounds to me way more overproduced than it. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Feb. 20 2004, 19:33 Much as i hate to do it - I have to agree with the mighty Ugo. How many artistes have given the same sound for over 30 years? How many artistes are still around after 30 years? Technology, life experience, senses all change with time. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

wowser Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Feb. 20 2004, 19:57 Quote (Ugo @ Feb. 20 2004, 19:20) Yeah, well, OK, albums like TSODE, Guitars and TB2003 may sound a bit too refined, too polished, when compared to the  raw candidness of outbursts like the Caveman in TB 1973 or the climax of Ommadawn part 1, but IMHO it's kinda useless to compare Mike's recent output with what he did in the 1970s, because TB, HR Ommadawn and Incantations are too far back in time. Or, to put it another way, that was then and this is now, and if Mike wants his (old) fans back, how many times can he say he's sorry?   As for 'overproduction': TB 2003 - overproduced? Nah. Stuff like Talkie Walkie by Air or Lost Horizons by Lemon Jelly sounds to me way more overproduced than it. i like lemon Jelly, actually. Perhaps i just find the production cheesy. I mean, that growly voice was cute on tubular belles but is starting to wear a bit thin. i'm not trying to compare mike past and present, as i like his new stuff (Tres Lunas was very good) but the production, if not overproduced, is certainly cheesy -------------- Pointless act! You don't give a five hundred dollar tip to the housekeeper! That's inappropriate! That's inexcusable! Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Feb. 21 2004, 08:26 You have to understand that Mike loves technology,and gets his hands on any new bit of kit that he can use in his music,and i'm sure if this hi -tech equipment was around in 1973 then Mike would have been using it then,so,i really don't think you can accuse him of overproducing,it's just that he was always ahead of his time,but technology has now caught up with him. Back to top

wowser Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Feb. 21 2004, 13:14 fair enough perhaps by using technology that is so current each time, his albums will inevitably age badly (in terms of  production), being of their time rather than say an acoustic guitar album which straddles technology over the last 50 years -------------- Pointless act! You don't give a five hundred dollar tip to the housekeeper! That's inappropriate! That's inexcusable! Back to top

dkaycom Group: Members Posts: 443 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Feb. 21 2004, 16:47 Quote (olracUK @ Feb. 21 2004, 01:33) How many artistes are still around after 30 years? hundreds, if not thousands..... one just has to search a bit and go deeper into artists' history. if they still do the same style, well, that's another question, of course. @ ugo: even a very "high"-produced album can still sound "raw" to someone's ears, it's just a matter of the way one listens to music.... @ wanderer: "futuristic" sounds on TSODE/TL ? did I miss something or was it possibly u ? Later, dkay -------------- Bootlegs should be shared not sold. (BlackCottonMafia) Find more tubular sounds at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Incantations/ Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Mar. 01 2004, 12:05 Yes, I'm fearless in saying TB2003 is overproduced. Say whatever you want, TB sounded complete and full, you couldn't add or remove any single note off of it. But TB2003 presents all those annoying extra sounds, those synth pads going "oooohhhh" in the background, and all that pseudo-"atmosphere". Why? Who needs that? It only detracts from the experience. I think Mike missed the point. It seems like Mike is completely ignoring the psychologic/emotional aspect of his music, and focusing solely in making the music sound "smooth". Want it or not, we notice when something is played by hand and when it's played by computer. It seems he forgot that. Or, he's just really lazy to go out and play everything by hand... actually, didn't Tom Newman say the same thing once? -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Mar. 01 2004, 15:14 Sorry,but i think it's you missing the point,Tubular Bells 2003 is what the original album would have sounded like had Mike been given the time to do it properly,so,this is what Mike wanted the album to sound like all along,now it does,and if Mike is happy then fine,it is after all his work,so,you have to respect that. Back to top

dkaycom Group: Members Posts: 443 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Mar. 01 2004, 15:28 well, actualy there are instruments in TB2003 that Mike couldn't have used in TB (1973), even if "Mike (had) been given the time to do it properly"..... and also production-mechanism which weren't available in the 70s. so it's a bit strange if Mr. O. would really mean "I always wanted to have done it like this", 'cause he simply was not able to do it like this in the time TB was created..... And additionaly: one shouldn't mix up "respect" with "like to hear".... Later, dkay -------------- Bootlegs should be shared not sold. (BlackCottonMafia) Find more tubular sounds at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Incantations/ Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Mar. 02 2004, 06:17 But what's more interesting is that, the more I hear it, the more I realise that both editions of Tubular Bells were created by two different people. I try to convince myself wrong, but I just can't believe that Mike would have done Tubular Bells like that in 1973 if he had time. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

qjamesfloyd Group: Members Posts: 1357 Joined: April 2001 Posted: Mar. 02 2004, 09:05 I don't think the fact it was made in 1973 has anything to do with it,look at Dark Side Of The Moon,that still sounds better than most albums made now,but they took there time with it,and made it as they really wanted to,Mike just could'nt do that. What instuments did he use on TB2003 that he could'nt on the original? Back to top

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