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RICHARDGORMLIE Offline




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Posted: Oct. 19 2006, 17:50

i just wanted to discuss views on music.  i think acts like:-
mike oldfield/ jean michel jarre/ moya brennan/ the chieftains/ enigma/ capercaillie/ caroline lavelle & vangelis are over looked in favour of manufactured bullshit.  acts like the sugababes, girls aloud, scissor sister are puppets who will be all but forgotten in years to come.  other acts i think are over looked are:- beverley craven/ the beautiful south/ nik kershaw/ bonnie tyler & tasmin archer.  why have people turned there backs on real music???.  the charts used to be filled with great music then talentless puppets came along.  look at the new single from david hasslehoff, what a joke!.  who ever bought david hasslehoff's new single should be shot!!!.
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BlueTape Offline




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Posted: Oct. 19 2006, 18:38

100010101% agree with you, with chart music now, it really hurts me that the fact that I put effort into my tracks and the chart music does not!!!!

great topic!


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my music website
www.bluetape.co.uk
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SentinelGard Offline




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Posted: Oct. 19 2006, 19:48

I totally agree aswell . My daughter loves to watch the smah hits shows on the weekend and i can tell you for the three hours to runs for each day there isn't one good song amoungest it . Which makes it worse there is more them enough good talent in the world e.g Exavier Rudd , The Whitlams , Ben Lee , The Killers , Tool so on and so forth .

P.S I can't stand gangster Rap . Who took the C out of rap ???  :laugh:


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"Onwards & Upwards'"
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Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Oct. 19 2006, 21:47

indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lindsey Buckingham have finally got very good reviews in Norway!!!
But do they sell him in the record shop??
no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i go crazy!
And about the new Enigma album..
Not a singel singel review in Norway. Only about this is to buy it on cdon.com.
But 100 other shit albums in the shop. I hate how they KILL good music. all those borring rap people with porn girls and blondes. If i ever could do anything to take all that away and start a very cool and rare music shop and let everyone know the pearls they not know..


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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 02:53

The way I see it is this:

They are closed-minded. They will only listen to things that they like (if it hasn't got a thumping beat, then its crap) It seems to revolve around 'coolness' and that seems to come from their peers' opinions.

So the music industry tells people how to be cool, then everyone else perpetuates it. I have always had a fundamental problem with coolness; the idea that you had to be like everyone else just to be considered valid. If I am right, that's what seperates us from those sorts of people - by the very nature of the music, how different and unusual or individual it usually is, the music we choose to listen to is often just beyond them. We are prepared to give everything a chance, to let it tell us it's message - they probably don't even realise that our music HAS a message.

It's like they're birds trying to comprehend architecture. They don't care what it does as long as they can sh*t on it.


--------------
Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 03:45

Quote (RICHARDGORMLIE @ Oct. 19 2006, 22:50)
acts like the sugababes, girls aloud, scissor sister are puppets who will be all but forgotten in years to come.

Nothing new in this, is there? As far as I recall, 90% of pop music (maybe more) has been pretty vacuous for decades. But then, it's only intended to be music for the moment. It was never supposed to last. You can pick your way among the rubbish, and usually find one or two little gems - but mostly it's just pap, and always has been.

Whether you like the pap that's actually on offer at any moment is pretty unpredictable. I find Scissor Sisters cheer me up, actually, and I've already confessed my fondness for the Pipettes. And maybe they will indeed be forgotten in a couple of years, but that's OK. Most pop music is the equivalent of the novel you read on holiday and throw away afterwards. It does its job (if you're lucky) without making any real demands on you, and that's that.

But someone like Mike Oldfield isn't in that category (unless he too is making throwaway pop music like he did in the 80s). The best of his music does make demands - you have to pay attention - you have to listen carefully - or you just don't get it. So he'll never be 'popular', because most people don't want their music to make those demands on them. That's why I tend to lump him along with composers like Elgar and Vaughan Williams. That's where his kind of music belongs. He never could fit alongside Girls Aloud. Or even the Pipettes!
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SoimSandheaver Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 04:16

I would be inclined to agree. Most chart music these days isn't even what can be considered music. It's just the everyday conversation of chavs to the background of an oppressive electronic malfunction so it seems. Whenever I hear such music in the Sixth Form Common Room, I seriously do think the radio's broken because the music skips so much. Then I find out, that is what the "song" is supposed to sound like? How is that music?

On the other hand, "rare" acts in the charts can be pretty good. Some still pay attention to music as opposed to "music video promotion". I'm talking about songs by "The Feeling", "Arctic Monkeys" and "A-Ha".

However, artists that have stood the test of time always seem to be overlooked because of the constant "popular" music shifts. Look at the Britpop movement of the mid-90s. Then it was rap. Now it is talk, and that's a loose way of describing it. Some artists don't even seem to have the ability to talk (look at Lily Allen).

Mike Oldfield isn't what you would consider to be a "pop" artist, so that's why he isn't in the public eye as much as he certainly was back in the 70s. But, he still has a huge, loyal fan base. We're not common people, we're different, and we are proud to be so. By the way, Pulp are a cool band too.


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"Three blokes go into a pub, one of them's a little bit stupid, then the whole scene unfolds, with a tedious inevitability."
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 05:06

Quote (SoimSandheaver @ Oct. 20 2006, 09:16)
Most chart music these days isn't even what can be considered music.

My parents used to tell me that about Elvis. And you should have heard the scorn they poured on the Beatles' 'Twist and Shout', and the Stones. "It's just noise," they said.

Quote
We're not common people, we're different, and we are proud to be so.


Proud to be so? I don't see where the pride comes in. My taste in music is just my taste in music - it just is what it is, and I don't think I can do much about it. I don't think I'm 'proud' of it.
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bee Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 05:36

Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 20 2006, 07:53)
They are closed-minded.

So the music industry tells people how to be cool, then everyone else perpetuates it.

I feel it's not just the music industry though, there is a lot of pressure all round on families, young people in particular, & older people too, to conform and get into this consumer driven society. It all seems to be about aquisiton, the more you have the more you should have. Is it also called capitalism?(don't want to get political at all here, not the right place, sorry) but the more it happens the more I want to go away from it. Music helps you to escape it.

I have always had a fundamental problem with coolness; the idea that you had to be like everyone else just to be considered valid. If I am right, that's what seperates us from those sorts of people - by the very nature of the music, how different and unusual or individual it usually is, the music we choose to listen to is often just beyond them. We are prepared to give everything a chance, to let it tell us it's message - they probably don't even realise that our music HAS a message.

How true this is. I think Mike Oldfield is and always has been a maverick in the best possible sense ~ going his own way, exploring his ideas in great depth. I think we, his fans, also have this element to a certain extent. We are not sheep. We listen and hear and understand and ask questions.



It's like they're birds trying to comprehend architecture. They don't care what it does as long as they can sh*t on it.

And that's right, very amusing images in my mind now, Pussy cat Dolls ( who??!;) jumping all over St Paul's Cathedral or 50 cent about to land on Versaille or Notre Dame.

What I also find interesting  (and I think it has been talked about here before many times, but is always worth raking over) is the question why in the 70's before Punk, New Romantics, Electronica, Mike absolutely struck to the heart of musical consciousness. He made what a lot of people knew they needed. Was it because of all that had gone before ie hippie/far out/music of exploration/weird experimental stuff. Was it that the receiveing audience were a little more sophisticated in general. Or that the music industry was jsut inexperienced in how to squeeze a lot of money out of people? Or what else, there are hundreds of reasons.

All I know is that Mike did what he did & the time was right; I loved it then and always will. People drifted off sadly and followed new trends but, his loyal fans remained. His music lasts, and let's be optimistic, the cycle will turn again, there are new audiences out there who will discover him. ( how I envy them, finding all those wonderful unknown albums!;)

First and foremost, Mike is a composer who happens also to be a good musician. And his originality should be applauded and never will be forgotten.

Having reread this I notice I have added my own thoughts into your post arron, I was trying to be clever & quote bits from what you said including mine. I haven't a clue how to do this properly because I am not clever!! Sorry, hope it makes sense anyway. :D


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....second to the right and straight on till morning....



You heard me before
Yet you hear me again
Then I die
Till I call me again
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jonnyw Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 05:44

I would say im quite happy to be diffrent than everyone else, one reason to that is because of this forum ive met people who are like me, and therefore make me realise that i shoulnt be down about being different.

Thank god for Mike is all i can say, I agree that music in the charts is mostly crap, im not going to argue about that, but ill agree with what Alan D said previously- you do find the odd little gems, like, i found a liking for "the Similou". i mean, ive worked in radio for a while and had some music grow on me, but that was few and far between. most of it wasnt engaging enough for me.

Iwant to hear music that is expressionist, thats full of emotion or messages, and i prefer it when a musican doesn't need to have lyrics telling me how he/she feels, id rather hear them do it with another instrument. hence why im not a fan of pop music and namely solo acoustic acts like james blunt/james morrison, or buskers on the street who just sing and play guitar. I'd rather hear them  play just the guitars and make me feel diffrent ways with JUST that guitar, or with odd, diffrent instruments, eg i have a freind who busks with Uilleann pipes (irish bagpipes - Featured on ommadawn)


thats just my opinion, im not realy old enough to have such a big opinion on the matter maybe but hey thats just me.

I hope some of you agree!


J


--------------
Grand piano.
Reed and pipe organ.
Glockenspeil.
Bass guitar.
Vocal chords.
Two slightly sampled electric guitars.
The venitian effect.
Digital sound processor.
And Tubular bells.

Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com

Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 05:56

Everyone's entitled to an opinion Jonny. Don't be down on yourself.

--------------
Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 06:33

Quote (bee @ Oct. 20 2006, 10:36)
Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 20 2006, 07:53)
They are closed-minded.

So the music industry tells people how to be cool, then everyone else perpetuates it.

I feel it's not just the music industry though, there is a lot of pressure all round on families, young people in particular, & older people too, to conform and get into this consumer driven society. It all seems to be about aquisiton, the more you have the more you should have. Is it also called capitalism?(don't want to get political at all here, not the right place, sorry) but the more it happens the more I want to go away from it. Music helps you to escape it.

I have always had a fundamental problem with coolness; the idea that you had to be like everyone else just to be considered valid. If I am right, that's what seperates us from those sorts of people - by the very nature of the music, how different and unusual or individual it usually is, the music we choose to listen to is often just beyond them. We are prepared to give everything a chance, to let it tell us it's message - they probably don't even realise that our music HAS a message.

How true this is. I think Mike Oldfield is and always has been a maverick in the best possible sense ~ going his own way, exploring his ideas in great depth. I think we, his fans, also have this element to a certain extent. We are not sheep. We listen and hear and understand and ask questions.



It's like they're birds trying to comprehend architecture. They don't care what it does as long as they can sh*t on it.

And that's right, very amusing images in my mind now, Pussy cat Dolls ( who??!;) jumping all over St Paul's Cathedral or 50 cent about to land on Versaille or Notre Dame.

What I also find interesting  (and I think it has been talked about here before many times, but is always worth raking over) is the question why in the 70's before Punk, New Romantics, Electronica, Mike absolutely struck to the heart of musical consciousness. He made what a lot of people knew they needed. Was it because of all that had gone before ie hippie/far out/music of exploration/weird experimental stuff. Was it that the receiveing audience were a little more sophisticated in general. Or that the music industry was jsut inexperienced in how to squeeze a lot of money out of people? Or what else, there are hundreds of reasons.

All I know is that Mike did what he did & the time was right; I loved it then and always will. People drifted off sadly and followed new trends but, his loyal fans remained. His music lasts, and let's be optimistic, the cycle will turn again, there are new audiences out there who will discover him. ( how I envy them, finding all those wonderful unknown albums!;)

First and foremost, Mike is a composer who happens also to be a good musician. And his originality should be applauded and never will be forgotten.

Having reread this I notice I have added my own thoughts into your post arron, I was trying to be clever & quote bits from what you said including mine. I haven't a clue how to do this properly because I am not clever!! Sorry, hope it makes sense anyway. :D

I think you've hit the nail on the head Alan. It used to be 'cool' to be different; to like weird stuff; to analyse and procrastinate and debate and be a rebel. Now it's all about being a fish in the currents, its difficult to swim against the tide and away from the school.

The question therefore is, if this is indeed what has happened, how did it happen?


--------------
Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 07:27

A lot of music in the charts are crap, but I am happy that it's gotten much better in the past 2 or so years. A lot of really exciting bands have come on the scene. For me that movement started a bit with Franz Ferdinand. They could even play a guitar!!!  :O
Haha... and after that lots of other bands, Kaiser Chiefs, Editors, Coral, Wolfmother, etc etc.
I love the things I see at the summer music festival in Holland every summer. Some very original people you meet, and also original bands.
But it's true that most of them don't top the charts anymore, but hey, what does music charts mean these days??? Absolutely NOTHING!!!!
So I don't worry about that.

I can identify also a bit with Alan when he says he's not proud of having (according to us here) good taste, but that it's just what he likes. That's true for me too, but still I silently but surely laugh a bit when I see some 15 year old go by with loud crap music on his earphones (which is so loud all of us can join in listening) and I tend to think for a moment:  'stupid fuckers...'   :p
:cool:


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"And now we're going to play Platinum!"
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 07:57

Language!  :D

--------------
Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:03

I'm sorry... I'll edit it and change 'stupid fuckers' to 'naughty ones'

hmm... on the other hand ... nah  ;)


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"And now we're going to play Platinum!"
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jonnyw Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:03

Quote (Piltdownboy on horseback 22 @ Oct. 20 2006, 12:27)
...Franz Ferdinand. They could even play a guitar!!!  :O
Haha...

Yeah...right!!  ;)


--------------
Grand piano.
Reed and pipe organ.
Glockenspeil.
Bass guitar.
Vocal chords.
Two slightly sampled electric guitars.
The venitian effect.
Digital sound processor.
And Tubular bells.

Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com

Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com
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Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:06

Quote (jonnyw @ Oct. 20 2006, 08:03)
Quote (Piltdownboy on horseback 22 @ Oct. 20 2006, 12:27)
...Franz Ferdinand. They could even play a guitar!!!  :O
Haha...

Yeah...right!!  ;)

hahahahahahaha... bad example maybe  ;)

but you get what I mean  :p

:laugh:  :laugh:


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"And now we're going to play Platinum!"
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jonnyw Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:07

yep, i know what you mean! Theyre original! and i dont think manufactured!

--------------
Grand piano.
Reed and pipe organ.
Glockenspeil.
Bass guitar.
Vocal chords.
Two slightly sampled electric guitars.
The venitian effect.
Digital sound processor.
And Tubular bells.

Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com

Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com
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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:08

Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 20 2006, 07:57)
Language!  :D

Is "franz ferdinand" a vulgar term?

--------------
"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
- Song of Hiawatha
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Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Offline




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Joined: Sep. 2005
Posted: Oct. 20 2006, 08:09

Quote (hiawatha @ Oct. 20 2006, 08:08)
Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 20 2006, 07:57)
Language!  :D

Is "franz ferdinand" a vulgar term?

I happen to know what that means in Japanese...
i've been embarrassed ever since  :/


:laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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