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Topic: Moonlight Shadow v. Crime of Passion, which do you prefer?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
memberd Offline




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Posted: Sep. 03 2012, 05:31

Everyone talks about the similarities between Moonlight Shadow and Man in the Rain, whereas I always found a similarity between MS and Crime of Passion...and I've always preferred the latter.
..in fact often I can't stand MS!

How about everyone else?


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stpaul Offline




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Posted: Sep. 03 2012, 07:19

Crime of Passion is ok and has a quite good chorus but it always sounded quite old-fashioned to me. Mainly because of Barry Palmers voice. In my opinion only in Poison Arrows it's produced probperly.
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Cavalier (Lost Version) Offline




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Posted: Sep. 03 2012, 07:33

Moonlight Shadow didn't tun me into an Oldfield fan, but you'll find it on the cassette of radio-recorded music that took my fancy at that time in 1983.  Crime of Passion turned out to be another agreeable diversion on The Vocal Side of Complete, while other tracks and sides demanded more attention.  I've subsequently come to admire every aspect of Moonlight Shadow; inadvertently appreciating that Mike took infinite care of every aspect of its production.  That's a detail I've learned years after the events - 26 years ago ( oww! ) I had no clue as to where and when Crime of Passion came from.  Knowing it now, I think I can safely say that he probably took a bit of time over this one as well and, between himself and Simon Phillips, probably sought to match the drive and tempo of the unexpected mega-seller.  The magic lightning wasn't destined to strike again and, as with many things admittedly, it didn't warrant any recollection in Changeling.  With a bit of luck, the chance to re-visit his eighties highpoint will prompt an actual interview for the booklet in the newCrises and he'll reveal that Crime... was actually knocked up in 20 minutes.  Many of my theories meet such a fate. ;)

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Platinumpty Offline




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Posted: Sep. 05 2012, 08:45

I always thought Crime of Passion had the most memorable and consistent lyrics of any MO song - you do get a sense of the tragic loss of a teenage girl through some acto of violence.  

I always imagined the father / brother / boyfriend standing in the girl's room looking at the walls:

I can see a complete life's time
Pictures and posters of times and fashion
Nineteen years with no reason or rhyme
Taken away in a crime of passion

I found it quite moving actually.
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Delfín Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 07:48

There's no concordance between the lyrics and the music, innit?? The music is quite uplifting and even the video shows an innocent and happy world. I find it hard to relate the song to a crime.


I think 'Crime of Passion' is actually better than 'Moonlight Shadow'. More clever and genius, less romantic and delicate tho'.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 09:03

The lyrics to "Crime of Passion" are based on a 19th-century legend about a lady called Elizabeth Jane Sewell. If you wish I shall state it in full here (a friend of mine, who's done some research on the matter, told it to me), but for the moment you should content yourself with the fact that Mike didn't invent the story. :)

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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 09:49

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 08 2012, 09:03)
The lyrics to "Crime of Passion" are based on a 19th-century legend about a lady called Elizabeth Jane Sewell. If you wish I shall state it in full here (a friend of mine, who's done some research on the matter, told it to me), but for the moment you should content yourself with the fact that Mike didn't invent the story. :)

But Mike told Barry Palmer that the lyrics were based on one of Mike's relatives, a girl who died at early age because of some sort of illness.
Either that's a lie or your friend is wrong!


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 15:03

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 08 2012, 15:49)
But Mike told Barry Palmer that the lyrics were based on one of Mike's relatives, a girl who died at early age because of some sort of illness.
Either that's a lie or your friend is wrong!

@ lars: I don't really know where my friend got the information she gave me, but I know that she's a university graduate and that she's done extensive research on the subject. The fact that what she told me is not the same as what Mike said doesn't mean that he was lying... it could also be that Mike actually wrote the song about Elizabeth Jane Sewell, then, when Barry Palmer asked him what the lyrics meant, he didn't remember at the moment what his inspiration has been, and made up another explanation.

Anyway, the legend says that Roger Sewell, a British nobleman from the 1850s, found out that his wife Elizabeth Jane had a lover, and challenged him to a gun duel - very like the one in the Moonlight Shadow video, except that this duel was in the early morning. Elizabeth found out about this, and just when her husband was about to shoot her lover, she ran in front of him, so her husband shot her instead. That night, Roger saw Elizabeth's ghost rising up from a bottle of wine (probably absinthe) and Elizabeth started tormenting him night after night for the next nineteen years. Roger eventually managed to somehow find a way to keep himself at peace with his guilt and with with Elizabeth, but he ended up killing himself. The veracity of all this has never been proved - as I said, it's a legend.

If the song is about someone dying of some illnesses, lyrics like "nineteen years with no reason or rhyme, taken away in a crime of passion" have very little sensible meaning, and the title is meaningless as well - while they both make perfect sense in light of the tale that I quoted above.


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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 16:30

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 08 2012, 15:03)
Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 08 2012, 15:49)
But Mike told Barry Palmer that the lyrics were based on one of Mike's relatives, a girl who died at early age because of some sort of illness.
Either that's a lie or your friend is wrong!

@ lars: I don't really know where my friend got the information she gave me, but I know that she's a university graduate and that she's done extensive research on the subject. The fact that what she told me is not the same as what Mike said doesn't mean that he was lying... it could also be that Mike actually wrote the song about Elizabeth Jane Sewell, then, when Barry Palmer asked him what the lyrics meant, he didn't remember at the moment what his inspiration has been, and made up another explanation.

Anyway, the legend says that Roger Sewell, a British nobleman from the 1850s, found out that his wife Elizabeth Jane had a lover, and challenged him to a gun duel - very like the one in the Moonlight Shadow video, except that this duel was in the early morning. Elizabeth found out about this, and just when her husband was about to shoot her lover, she ran in front of him, so her husband shot her instead. That night, Roger saw Elizabeth's ghost rising up from a bottle of wine (probably absinthe) and Elizabeth started tormenting him night after night for the next nineteen years. Roger eventually managed to somehow find a way to keep himself at peace with his guilt and with with Elizabeth, but he ended up killing himself. The veracity of all this has never been proved - as I said, it's a legend.

If the song is about someone dying of some illnesses, lyrics like "nineteen years with no reason or rhyme, taken away in a crime of passion" have very little sensible meaning, and the title is meaningless as well - while they both make perfect sense in light of the tale that I quoted above.

Still, Mike should know because he wrote the lyrics. I just thought she was nineteen when she died and that she died around easter time...or something. Thoroughly researched lyrics about obscure legends doesn't sound like Mike anyway. And where does the "pictures and posters of times and fashion" fit into the legend? And what about the video?

I'm sure your friend's education helps her know more about the legend in question but it doesn't mean she knows what Mike wrote specific songs about.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Sep. 08 2012, 17:16

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 08 2012, 22:30)
Thoroughly researched lyrics about obscure legends doesn't sound like Mike anyway.

Maybe Mike didn't need any research at all... maybe he read the story in a book, was fascinated by it and wrote a song about it. :) My "friend" never told me what her sources were, she wrote me a couple of e-mails and then she stopped. Certainly the lyrics are vague enough to have multiple interpretations, and, as always with Mike's lyrics, some words may be in there more for their sound than for the actual meaning - for example, I guess he liked the alliterative quality of "pictures and posters". As for the video, couldn't it be that the video for "Moonlight Shadow" and this one were sort-of exchanged, at least from a conceptual point of view? When the video for MS was made, Mike had probably already written CoP, so maybe some of the ideas in the lyrics of CoP ended up in the video for MS, and then, when the time came to do a video for CoP, he had to do an imaginative one, but which has absolutely nothing to do with the lyrics... because the imagery which was in the lyrics had already been exploited in the video for MS? :D On my own side, regardless of what Alessandra (my virtual friend) told me, I still think that "Crime of Passion" is very unfit as a title for the story of someone who's dying from an illness, and it's way better as a title for the story of someone who wishes to kill his wife's lover. Down here we'd say crime of honour.


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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 09 2012, 07:27

Could well be that he used the story for the MS video and parts of the CoP lyric?
It's not unusual to write a draft lyric and then change lines here and there along the way. Perhaps Mike wanted the song to be about his niece but didn't have the time to re-write the whole set of lyrics?
More songs than one would expect end up like that - a pile of lines left from various discarded lyrical ideas. I know from own experience that sometimes you just keep the llines that sound best when sung even though they don't make very much sense.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Sep. 09 2012, 07:55

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 09 2012, 13:27)
Perhaps Mike wanted the song to be about his niece but didn't have the time to re-write the whole set of lyrics?

I have no idea. :p If Mike had already read or got acquainted with the tale when he did the video for MS, he and the director would probably have developed the duel scenes more than they are now, and most probably they'd have included Elizabeth's ghost somewhere (although there indeed are a few ghostly presences in the MS video). Regarding sound vs. meaning, we all known that Mike is a master of that. "Northpoint" and "Innocent" are prime examples. :D


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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 09 2012, 10:56

They may be inconsequent, but they're not Yes lyrics!  :laugh:

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fatfloosie Offline




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Posted: Mar. 22 2013, 12:42

Crime of Passion is about an Elizabeth Jane who died of cystic fibrosis in the winter of 1983 aged 19. I know the Oldfield connection was through her father but am not sure of her exact relationship to Mike, it may be that she was actually a blood relative of Sally Cooper.

So Barry Palmer is exactly right, if a bit vague, and Ugo is completely wrong.

I recall being told at the time the song was released that the 'he' referred to in the song was her brother.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Mar. 22 2013, 20:48

There could be another layer to Crime of Passion: the picture on the cover was of Mike's mother. He was no longer 19 when she died, but I can't help wondering if some of his own story didn't creep into there.

I personally find that, at least when it comes to songs I've written (and I've seen well known songwriters say the same thing), they're often the coming together of a number of different experiences and ideas. While the seed is usually one thing, other ideas tend to creep in as it develops - rather like Lars was saying.

I'd agree, though, that it's difficult to put much weight on the Elizabeth Jane Sewell story without anything to suggest that Mike was aware of it. If it turns out he was, I don't feel it would necessarily be incompatible with him being inspired by the death of a relative called Elizabeth Jane...the question's really how likely it is. The main inspiration being the relative dying of cystic fibrosis seems the most likely, at least from what I can see. What would be the crime of passion in that case, though?
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Mar. 23 2013, 03:23

Actually, my brother in law passed away a few years ago from that very same illness, but he was well into his middle age. Crueal disease. Breaks down your body from the inside.

On the subject of Moonlight Shadow vs Crime of Passion I am not surprised that  the latter was not as succesful. I remember buying the Crime of Passion 7" when it came out and being a a bit surprised by the gloomy tone of both the music and the lyrics. Moonlight Shadow had the "gloss" of Maggie's voice and a little more dynamics in the guitar solos.
In those days I was just a kid and a new Mike Oldfield record  was a big event. Once you bought a single you listened to until you liked it. Simple as that. I even listened to Pictures in the Dark until it grew on me although I didn't like it at all to begin with. Today I would have checked it out on spotify and if I didn't like it....wouldn't have been bothered to listen again.


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