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Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 03 2005, 18:46 I'm at the early project planning stage of putting together a community project to do a few performances of Mike Oldfield's music. One of the few advantages of being a director of a venue is that from time to time you can indulge yourself as long as it hits all the business buttons too. At this stage I have convinced my new events manager that it will work, spent days listening to the albums over and over again to get a set list clear in my mind , pencilled in a draft date (probably July 2006 to co-incide with our local Arts Festival) & started work on the bizniz plan (yep, always need one when you run a charity like a community venue). I know this is a long way off, but community projects take a long time (haven't got the resources to do it any other way) and I want to do this properly i.e not a tribute band, but a performance of the music. Anyway, I wanted to float the draft set list in front of the people that have the passion i.e you lot and see what you think. The key part of this performance will be ... surprise .. TB. But I'm planning to fuse aspects of TB1 (2003 version), TB2 and TB 3 together into 1 coherent piece. Anyway - here's the list. First half Airborn Platinum Man In The Rain To France Poison Arrows Ommadawn Pt 1 When The Nights On Fire Taurus II Second half TB Pt 1 (2003 version mainly, but still playing with ideas) TB Pt 2  - broken down as The Inner Child (TB3) Serpents Dream (TB3) Weightless (TB2) The Great Plain/Peace (2003 vers) Bagpipes (TB 2003) Cavemen (TB 2003) Maya Gold (TB2) Secrets (TB3) Far Above The Clouds (TB3) Encore (well you can hope) Moonlight Shadow TB PT 1 finale (reprise a'la Exposed) So, what do you think. I think it's ambitious, but exciting - and doable. If I was looking at this from your perspective there are a bunch of questions I'd have in mind about the whys & wherefores -but I have spent a lot of time working on the order of play and whats in and out. I'll probably be posting requests for infohelp on tech stuff elsewhere (effects patches comes to mind), - however, first things first. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Jan. 03 2005, 20:01 Well...the set list is a taste thing, and I'm sure you'll get loads of differing opinions on what you should and shouldn't have, based mostly on what people's personal favourites are. I see it as being entirely your choice though - you're the one who's got to make it work, and if you feel that what you've picked is the set list you can make work the best, then stick with it. I would personally be very careful of playing around with the structure of Tubular Bells. It's an interesting idea, combining aspects of all three Tubular Bells albums, but I think it does run the risk of becoming disjointed. Again though, if you feel you can make it work, then go for it, but I think it would involve a lot of work on re-arranging the pieces so that they flow together. I would say that an awful lot depends on the resources you have available - particularly the human resources (i.e. the musicians). In your situation, I would first look at who was available to perform, and then work out which pieces they are likely to be able to perform best, considering their abilities. for example, if all that's available is the members of a local four piece blues band, The Inner Child is going to sound a bit silly with them playing it, but songs like Poison Arrows could be made to sound quite good. The angle I would approach it from would be to look at who is likely to be available, and what they can perform best - something which you might well have already done. Then comes the task of making sure that they can/will actually take part, and making the musical arrangements to suit... Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 03 2005, 20:19 Good points. I'm relying on a track record of a pool of musicians who have pulled off theatrical peformances of both Tommy and The Wall, so to a degree, I've done some pre filtering. I've also got an events manager who plays in a well established Beatles tribute band, has written musicals including an adaptation of Kinks' music within a play (which they took on tour and performed it at glastonbury in 1990 something). In saying that I'm not underestimating the challenge. As a fan I want this to be what I want to experience and if I can't get the people to make it work, then I won't do it. However, I watch semi pro orchestras every other week delivering very complex symphonic work and so I'm sure that, with the right combination of people and time, it can work. I completely agree about the arrangements etc. I've also tried to take into account what the audience would accept, which is why I've tried to stick with classic TB1 (albeit 2003 version) for Pt1. I feel that Pt2 is where TB grows up, hence why I've aimed for mainly TB2 & 3. I've got  Head of Music lined up to work on the dots & arrangements - but jury's still out about how far we go with orchestration. If you have a moment - and an MP3 player - try out a playlist using the TB Pt2 tracks. I have a slight key problem moving between Great Plains and Peace, but aside from that I think it works. Actually that's one of the reasons why I switched the order of Inner Child and Serpent's Dream around - they just worked better in that order. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 00:44 Sounds great. With some good musicians and proper orgainization (and it certainly sounds like you have both) this should come off really good. Playing around with Tubular Bells Part 2 is an interesting idea. Perhaps it isn't my ideal tracklisting (I'd have Ambient Guitars instead of Maya Gold), but that's up to you and I think it should sound good. Just don't be surprised if real Tubular Bells fans denounce as a heretic for fiddling with it!!!   -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 04:09 Well, I do regard myself as a real TB fan - but I expect you mean the militant wing. I've read alot of debate about which TB is best, why etc and personally I see TB as having an evolving personality. If you took a snapshot of me at 17, again at 27 and then at 40, you'd find 3 differing but related people. I'm still as naively enthusiastic at 45 as I was as 17, but much more self aware. When I first listened to TB3 I was disappointed. It took me quite some time to hear it as a standalone piece but when I finally got there, it fell into place as part of the canon very readily. This may be even worse heresy, but I think that you can reconstitute many personalities for TB from the range of work. I suppose the 'Best Of..' CD tried to do that to a degree. I've just chosen a mix of flavours that work for me - and hopefully several hundred others !! I've knitted an MP3 together of TB Pt2 according to this list in a continous stream, which I'll post a link to later this week if anyone's interested. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 04:38 Yes, I'd certainly like to hear that mp3. Of course it won't flow as well as the concert will, but it should give a good idea as to what the thing will sound like. Looking at the track listing I think it will work very well, and nothing that ends with Far Above the Clouds can ever be bad! -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Patrick Coleman Unregistered Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 07:47 Interesting - hope it all goes well, where will it be held? Its a must that you have something from 'The Songs of Distant Earth' How about opening with the track..'In the beginning?' Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 08:31 Assuming I can put together a plan that holds water (it will cost several thousand pounds to make this happen). the proposed date for the first performance will be 7th July 2006, with 2 more on 8th and 9th. This may drift by a week or so depending upon other factors, but broadly it will be about then. The venue will be The Cheese & Grain in Frome, Somerset, UK. This is a community venue that holds about 800 people standing uncomfortably or about 500 seated. We have an advantage of in house infrastructure of staging, 10K PA & lighting + 15 foot wide video wall. One of the business objectives of this project will be to raise some cash towards improving the facilities - I have my eye on fitting out part of the building with digital recording, so a band can do a gig and record it all in 1 package. Bands that play here like the atmosphere, even though it's slightly too big a space for some of them, and orchestras like the acoustics - even though it's really only a converted warehouse. Click here to go to the venue web site   Cheese & Grain, Frome. Set wise :- Constraints are mainly time & audience expectation. I originally wanted Incantations Pt3, Hergest Ridge Pt1 + loads of other stuff including the track that you mention BUT, 2.5 hours total is about as much as is deliverable. I've opted for the stuff that I would want to hear - however ITB is quite short, so there may be some room, when I have a clearer view of the real lengths of each song rather than the time stated on the CD. I also wanted to make sure that there was some sort of balance between instrumentals and vocal driven songs. I'm still not sure if Ommadawn and Taurus II is too ambitious for the first half, but I'd hate to drop either. Perhaps the final decisions will be down to playability. Anyway - keep the ideas flowing. This is why it will take 6 months to plan & about a year to deliver ! Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 12:29 Quote (Phil Moakes @ Jan. 04 2005, 02:19) I have a slight key problem moving between Great Plains and Peace, but aside from that I think it works. AFAIR Mike had the very same problem when moving between The Great Plain and Tattoo during the Edimburgh performance of TBII, but solved it brilliantly by shifting the end of TGP half a tone down. I'm not aware, at the moment, of how many tones (or semitones) separate TGP and Peace, but if you are a clever musician [and I'm sure you are! ] this should be no problem at all. Shame that I'm not able to travel to England during that period. I'm pretty much sure that I'll miss a great, great, great show!!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 13:00 Quote (Ugo @ Jan. 04 2005, 17:29) AFAIR Mike had the very same problem when moving between The Great Plain and Tattoo during the Edimburgh performance of TBII, but solved it brilliantly by shifting the end of TGP half a tone down. The fun part is trying to find the right place to move between Great Plain and Peace so that neither feel wrong. I've had a go (using simple editing tools) and I've listened to it back loads of times now (even after leaving it alone for a day or 2 to get perspective). I'm going to stick with the edit for the time being and then review when I get to hear it with a bunch of people playing rather than a jigsaw of tracks. There are a few other edits that I want to make that can't be done with cut and paste - like the singy chorus bit from Altered States put back inside the 2003 Cavemen at the appropriate moment; like grafting the TB1 & 2 themes more overtly into Secrets as complimentary themes (TB1 theme works fine against the TB1 finale synth bass, but Sentinel is a bit trickier - it could just sounds like a mess.) Again, this is all part of the next few months planning. Some ideas will subtlely work - others - well, they just won't. And if they don't work, I'll bin them. I'll post a link to the MP3 later this evening and then you can tell me if I've got it wrong. Back to top

ATTMO Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 16:15 Well parts of what you are planing sounds like ideas that have been spinning through my head for a long time. As for the transitions... well they would need to be written for each situation but I guess it will not be such a major problem. Concerning the set (apart from the fact that it is only partly what I would have chosen) I would recommend planning more than you will actually perform and then, while collecting musicians and especially while rehersing you will notice which pieces do not work well and you will be able to drop these. I would be interested in how you want to arrange the music. As close to the original as possible (TB II ish), with a small band (knebworthish) or with a larger orchestra (Exposedish). Will you have a conductor? The 500 people limit might mean that there will probably be mainly MO fans. This is sad in some way as it will not introduce many new people to mikes music, however it might enable you to rise the "niveau" of the pieces played. I will be studying in Britain in 2006 so distance will probably not be a major problem. I offer to help you with promotion, planning etc. but of course I would like to offer musical help as well. Unfortunately I am not sure whether you will need a bassoonist (except for HR/OD as a substitute or addition for the oboe maybe) - depends on your arrangement. -------------- "Such is life; and we are but as grass that is cut down, and put into the oven and baked" - Jerome K Jerome Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 16:58 Attmo : Thanks for your support. Most of the transitions aren't as tricky as they seem - a bit of glue here and there. Mid song ones are a bit livelier. I'm interested in knowing what you would have chosen for the set. As I've mentioned before I wanted to string together the set that I would like to experience, but conscious of audience - hence why there's a string of instrumentals punctuated by songs. As much as i'd like to think that  fully paid up MO fans will jump on the train and spend a weekend in Somerset, I'm more inclined to think that the audience will be a 70/30 split favouring our local catchment area. That's usually been the case for interesting projects. And if the 3 dates sell OK, maybe we can add on another !! Arrangements - core band with probably 3 guitars (1 acoustic + 2 electric), bass, drums, 2 key players (maybe + piano), percussion (as yet undefined), 3 female vocal + 1 male. Orchestral - still thinking it through, but I'd like a small string section with a 'lead violin'. Other stuff - pipes and mandolin are tricky to find. Much of this depends upon who I can enthuse between now and the Summer. There is an established classical pianist who lives locally who may also provide conductor duties if I can sell him the idea. He tours and records with 'proper musicians', but is very committed to community projects. He usually performs in one capacity or another at the Arts Festival. Where will you be studying ? Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 04 2005, 21:19 Please find below a link to a site upon which I've placed an MP3 of the 'restitched TB Pt2. Tubular Bells Pt 2 Restitched The file is about 15MB - so about a 5 minute download if you have broadband - otherwise ... To keep the file manageable I've had to knock it down to 22K Mono, but it sounds OK all the same, and will give you a good idea about how it all flows. Although you may be mainly interested in the transitions, I would recommend that you listen to the whole 37 minutes, so you can get a good idea if it works as a whole. I've also added a brief word doc that I wrote to myself to explain why I glued it together in this way. Its a bit up its own wotsit, but then it was never intended for anyone else. However, I'll only end up repeating it so ... Quick note on copyright. Technically this is a breach and I do not condone copyright theft. However the purpose here is to gain your opinion on whether this arrangement works. I'll leave it up there for a couple of days and then take it off line. Before I commit to any serious work I will obtain copyright approval for the minor adjustments - and obviously the performance will be covered by our PRS license (and MCPS will be sorted if any recording takes place). Look forward to hearing your opinions. I regard this forum as an important barometer (even though I obviously have my own views !!. You also need to remember that the performance will follow this up with an encore that will return to TB Pt1 Finale, but Exposed style - the final pay off for the audience, back in the comfort zone. One final word on heresy. I've seen MO loads of times over the years and listened to stacks of live CDs/DVDs. Live he has almost always played around with arrangements at will - sometimes to my eternal frustration. Admittedly, its his art ... Back to top

c_haese Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: Jan. 05 2005, 13:01 Quote (Phil Moakes @ Jan. 04 2005, 21:19) To keep the file manageable I've had to knock it down to 22K Mono In the ever-shrinking universe in which MP3 is the only option, this may be true. I'd like to take this opportunity to suggest Ogg Vorbis (http://www.vorbis.com) as an alternative. With Ogg Vorbis encoding quality 0, you'll achieve a similar filesize at 44KHz stereo. Since Ogg Vorbis uses variable bit rates, it's hard to say up front how big a file is going to be. Quality 0 results nominally in 64kbps, but in my experience Mike's music usually takes less than that. Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 05 2005, 14:47 Quote (c_haese @ Jan. 05 2005, 18:01) Quote (Phil Moakes @ Jan. 04 2005, 21:19) To keep the file manageable I've had to knock it down to 22K Mono In the ever-shrinking universe in which MP3 is the only option, this may be true. I'd like to take this opportunity to suggest Ogg Vorbis (http://www.vorbis.com) as an alternative. I usually use Sound Forge for my digital editing. Sound Forge does support .ogg so I'm going to try it out - thanks for that Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 05 2005, 19:16 I wonder how many years it will take for Microsoft to make Windows Media Player play .ogg?   You'd think they would have a patch for it by now. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 05:57 You could expect to hear a big rave from a crazed lunatic demanding Taurus II to be dropped in favour of Music From The Balcony, but let's leave this aside a little. One of my comments is about the inclusion of "songs" to please the public. So, I'm wondering what the heck Man In The Rain and When The Night's On Fire are doing there. In my view, what pleases the public isn't the presence of vocals, but the energy in the song. So I would, personally, suggest Crime Of Passion instead of Man In The Rain - especially since you intend to include Moonlight Shadow on the encore. Crime Of Passion is Moonlight Shadow's evil brother, and it's far more intense. To France and Poison Arrows are good ones, but don't forget that there are a couple of unusual, fun tunes in Mike's catalogue. Did you think of In Dulci Jubilo, or Heaven's Open, or even In The Pool for some unexpected mutated reggae? It's a possibility. I'm sorry, it's just my personal opinion kicking in. I'm not sure on When The Night's On Fire. The rearrangement of Tubular Bells part II is an interesting idea (and be aware that I'm saying that even though I can't stand the two TB sequels). I also read the explanations on why the tracks were chosen, and they seem to make sense. You know what could (could) work in the transition between The Great Plain and Peace? You could play Peace right from the beginning, so that the final chord of The Great Plain ©, anxious to resolve into F, falls into G with the Farfisa solo. Could make a good effect. I also wonder why favour Maya Gold - it reprises the main motif from TBII that wasn't even introduced before. To me, the long guitar solo could work better, ending in the organ chords raising tension. Secrets and Far Above The Clouds... hrmmm, yeah, alright. I see that you're willing to eliminate The Sailor's Hornpipe, but... did you think of including it right after Far Above The Clouds ends? It could be even funnier than on the original. Well, those are comments. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 06:20 I'm listening to the Part 2 mix right now, and It's sounding really good. Having Serpent Dream after The Inner Child does make sense, as you could extend the acoustic solo of The Inner Child into Serpent Dream if you wanted. If you don't it still flows very well. Launching staight from loud Serpent Dream to Weightless might be tricky, but it is in keeping with the 'chop and change' spirit of the original. Of course there's no problem with the transition between Weightless and Great Plain. If I had any sort of musical knowledge I could probably comment on Sir M's suggestion for the next one, but I have no idea  . There certainly won't be any problems with the rest of the transitions, and overall it's a job well done!! I wish I could be there to hear it played. As for the rest of the songs, I agree with Sir M about The Nights on Fire, but then if you like it then it's your choice. I actually like Man in the Rain. Not as much as Moonlight Shadow but it's a perfectly good song to me. If you wanted to play absolutely every good or popular thing from Mike you'd be there for days, so in the end it just comes down to the one's you like best. By the way Sir M, if you want energy, please don't complain about Far Above the Clouds.    It's got more energy than Crime of Passion 500 times over, and absolutely goes off live. Again, I wish I could be there to hear it. Good luck, but I'm sure you won't need it. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 06:41 If you wanna include Flying Start I can do a pretty good Kevin Ayers style vocal! Good luck with the project, man! Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Phil Moakes Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Jan. 06 2005, 10:13 I'm chewing over the thoughts and views - nothing is written in stone - (but since I'm at work at the moment I can't do full justice till later this evening). I can answer a couple of the points raised though. Sir M :- First of all Taurus II is one of my alltime favourites, so it was almost the first entry on my list. However understand your point of view. Man In The Rain came in and out several times because, although I like it, it does have structural similarities with Moonlight Shadow. When I fixed on Shadow being at the end, I pretty much decided that MITR would need to be much earlier on if included. Crime of Passion is an easy response - I don't like it much. Sorry & apologies - some songs work for us personally and others don't. I agree about the energy point, but given the weight of instrumental content I felt that the front end of the set needed some fairly accessible songs. Night On Fire - this one is negotiable, but it is my favourite from Islands and it calms things down after Ommadawn before going to Taurus II. Here, for me, its about warming down before you go off again on hi octane. What I'm trying to do is to manage the mood. There could be room for In Dulci somewhere because it is lighter and very recognisable. I did half consider it as a Hornpipe replacement, but decided against in the end because the conclusion of FATC is emphatic and I didn't want to dilute that power. Need to think (and listen) through your Great Plain/Peace idea. Maya Gold - the TB2 theme point is valid, but I had hoped to somehow weave the theme in earlier as a hint. Raven4x4x - Glad you agree about Inner Child etc - I think it really works well. As above on Night On Fire. MITR has really grown on me since I started thinking this through (about 2 months ago). The big problem with this is in trying to construct a route for the audience that carries & builds their emotion. In plan A I filled between instrumentals with a song, but that was too bitty, so I thought I'd try and put a few songs together in one place. I think that the audience (who won't be anywhere near as au fait with the wealth of material as Tubular.Netters are) will need an accesible entry point to get them ready for Ommadawn. Actually I played with Mistake and Flying Start in one version as well. I've still got Plan Z that brings together the first minute and a half of Wonderful Land and Sheba. However, at the end of the day, if the first half has both Ommadawn & taurus II, I've used up about 45 minutes. I like starting the whole thing off with Airborn & Platinum (about 8 mins), so that leaves about 20 - 25 mins max for the other songs. That equates to about 5 songs max - however, as I've said, I want your opinions so keep them coming. I'll try and give this some further thought and get back later - although I'll probably need to construct a new first half playlist and hear it back. FamilyJ - is that kevin ayers with full or recently emptied  bottle of wine ?! Back to top

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