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Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: May 07 2005, 13:07 Quote (Alan D @ May 07 2005, 14:24) Quote (hiawatha @ May 07 2005, 12:25) It's just a computer game with a little music. I've seen several such artistic/etc videogames over the years. I'm a bit worried about hijacking this thread way off topic, but I have to ask: 1. Please tell me what these other games are. If they are indeed the same kind of art form as MVR then I want them! (taken from  Why do we have to wait for the new album) I don't know if Hiawatha had this in mind, but Peter Gabriel's EVE was somewhere in the same ballpark, integrating his music into a game. It had a similar concept to Tres Lunas, of starting off with a barren landscape which you slowly 'fertilise' by collecting objects (EVE standing for Evolutionary Virtual Environment, though also of course referring to Eve from the bible). That's really where the similarity ends, though - EVE was focused much more on interactive art, and music toys which would let you mix music (what parts you had to work with depended on what objects you'd collected). There were a lot of puzzles in there too. The environment was basically 2D, based on photographs (but centred around a Quicktime VR panorama), so without the freedom of Music VR...but it looked fantastic, and still does, even though it's about 10 years old now. It's well worth checking out, as it's a fascinating journey that'll have you absorbed for ages. EVE was a huge project though - I think if people find it hard to accept Mike's taking breaks from music to produce things on the scale of Tres Lunas and Maestro, they'd go barmy if Mike was putting in the time necessary to create something like EVE! There was a huge team behind it - exactly what Mike didn't want with Music VR. You can still buy EVE from the womad shop (their system doesn't take kindly to direct linking, but click 'CD ROMs' and you'll see it)...seems the price is about the same as Music VR...I don't know if that includes the beautiful packaging it originally came with - it had a big, glossy, paperback book to accompany it (and I do mean book and not just booklet) with information about the game and the artists involved. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 07 2005, 16:05 Thanks for this! I'll follow it up. In terms of exquisite virtual places to explore (and some rather nice music at times, too), of course the Myst games take some beating - particularly Uru which is breathtaking. And yet...astounding though it is (and of course it's graphically far superior to MVR) it lacks that essential freedom that is crucial to MVR - that feeling, each time you start it up, of 'what shall I do and where shall I go, and what will happen this time?'. This is what I'm looking for. A virtual place that seems alive and vibrant, and pulsing with the energy and inspiration of the artist whenever I go there. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: May 07 2005, 17:48 Thanks for making this another item. The music/art/etc meld "videogames" I recall were many years ago, on mere 8 bit computers. It is so long ago that I do not recall the names of these few projects. One or two were on the Amiga, as I recall. What makes MVR different? Much better graphics, and music from the Master.... but it is more evolutionary than revolutionary. I barely even remember the name of EVE, so this is not one of those I was recalling. As far as "Freedom" goes, compared to Myst. If I recall playing Myst correctly, exploring was a lot easier because Myst let you save where you left off and start again. Unlike MVR. In regards to your (Alan D's) comment "A virtual place that seems alive and vibrant, and pulsing with the energy and inspiration of the artist whenever I go there". I think that MVR could have been much more like this if it had more music. I found that so much of it was either silence (or near silence) or just a quiet drum-track like sound. I was really hoping for a lot more music in MVR. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 07 2005, 18:44 Quote (hiawatha @ May 07 2005, 22:48) I think that MVR could have been much more like this if it had more music. I found that so much of it was either silence (or near silence) or just a quiet drum-track like sound. I was really hoping for a lot more music in MVR. If you're talking about Maestro, then most people would agree with you about the disappointing lack of music. But Tr3s Lunas has music seeping out of every pore! How much did you play it? The game is drenched in music, unforgettably. Way back in the 80s I was very involved in writing games for the ZX Spectrum, but out of the vast array of games written, only a tiny handful came anywhere near creating any truly imaginative impression of virtual reality. This was partly due of course to 8-bit limitations and lack of memory, but chiefly it was due to no one having the genius to grab hold of it in the right way. A very few came close enough to be interesting. The next generation of machines - Amiga, Atari ST - provided improved graphics but still there was no real change in approach, and I lost interest. Much later, when I found MVR I knew I'd never seen anything like it in essence - and that this was what I'd been seeking all along. I suspect I'm looking for something different in these games, compared with you - hard though it is to express it. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: May 07 2005, 21:23 I did only play the Tr3s demo. At the time, the system at mikeoldfield.com or musicvr or whatever that let you purchase the full version was turned off. It was off for a long time, and I gave up trying to purchase it and moved on. Based on this recommendation, looks like I should try again! -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: May 08 2005, 05:08 I would Hiawatha, I was converted, and I'm as stubborn as a mule, so if I can... -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 05:39 Quote (hiawatha @ May 08 2005, 02:23) I did only play the Tr3s demo. The Tr3s Lunas demo is just about enough to give a faint idea of the atmosphere of the Tr3s Lunas landscape, but little else. It's the palest of pale shadows of the real thing, and gives no hint of the richness of experience offered by the real game. Even when I only played it offline, the full game sustained my interest, fascination, and enjoyment for two years. Once I started playing it online, the lid blew off. A small fraction of the kind of interactive experiences that are possible are recorded in the posts of the MVR Club - the sharing of expeditions with others; the generation of a spirit of exploration. We've uncovered deeply rewarding aspects of Tr3s Lunas that I'm fairly sure even Mike himself didn't explore. Such is the depth and range of the program. I always imagined the chief purpose of the demo was to allow you to test whether the game would run on your computer. Otherwise it was nothing much. Certainly I found very little in it to occupy me. So, to describe Tr3s Lunas as just a computer game with a little music, based only on experience of the demo - that's a bit naughty, Hiawatha! Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 07:38 Quote (Alan D @ May 08 2005, 05:39) So, to describe Tr3s Lunas as just a computer game with a little music, based only on experience of the demo - that's a bit naughty, Hiawatha! As I told you before, I was only describing Maestro. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 08:14 Quote (hiawatha @ May 08 2005, 12:38) Quote (Alan D @ May 08 2005, 05:39) So, to describe Tr3s Lunas as just a computer game with a little music, based only on experience of the demo - that's a bit naughty, Hiawatha! As I told you before, I was only describing Maestro. ??? Somewhere along the way I've lost track of this. In the previous thread we were  talking about MVR in general - then when the issue of lack of music came up, I turned specifically to Tr3s Lunas, and you said you only knew the demo, so I'm not sure how we got to here from there ... Well, no matter. I suspect you won't like Tr3s Lunas either, but for different reasons. The only important point I want to be understood is that Tr3s Lunas is not just a computer game plus a bit of music. I wouldn't want to try to defend Maestro against such a claim. I'm not wholly convinced myself about it. Back to top

oblique Group: Members Posts: 411 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 08 2005, 09:34 There are more things like these in the make. When I first saw the Tres Lunas demo I wondered why the images where so lame (sorry Mike), and that's why I've been trying to make something similar myself, that being a game with better looking images and newly composed music (by Edoardo Fainello). We've been working on this since August 2003, and even though it's not finished you can catch a glimpse of it at my webpage. It's not complete: a large part of the music's finished and about 90% of the scenes. It's fun making this. I'll let you guys know when it's finished..... -------------- "While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past." - Jack Vance Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 12:19 Quote (Alan D @ May 08 2005, 08:14) ??? Somewhere along the way I've lost track of this. In the previous thread we were  talking about MVR in general Well, no matter. I suspect you won't like Tr3s Lunas either, but for different reasons. The only important point I want to be understood is that Tr3s Lunas is not just a computer game plus a bit of music. I wouldn't want to try to defend Maestro against such a claim. I'm not wholly convinced myself about it. I said MVR when I was really talking about Maestro earlier. You said that the Tr3s game was better than Maestro, so I am going to get it. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

maria Group: Members Posts: 928 Joined: July 2002 Posted: May 08 2005, 13:37 then, hope to c u soon in some online game, hiawatha my experience with games other than mvr is short really. speaking about virtual worlds i can only mention one called 'active worlds'. when tr3s lunas was released, someone i met playing online invited me to enter as a guest. so i did several times and i can say i was amazed for what i found. 'active worlds' is a 3d environment made of worlds that users can explore and build the own places up from them. it was long ago and sure i'm missing details, but i still remember it was a universe with lots of tools and complex organization where people in avatars could interact. it was way different to tr3s lunas though.. the feeling i got from that is that there are people forming cyber societies with villages made up of houses containing virtual furniture and virtual human stuff... i mean, it was very much like real life for what i got to see. it's a different feeling in tr3s lunas where u fly with owls and into bats caverns.. and there are surreal landscapes behind the barriers.. i enjoyed the experience but i prefer the concept in tr3s lunas. there were interesting things to learn like how they make the buildings from a square on the ground which is taken as basis, then with measures and playing with axes u can build up the walls and roof until getting the shape u want for your building. later u can fill it with all the stuff u need in a house. i could visit one where there were even towels !! i was glad to know about 'active worlds', but i felt a lack of *something* i found and still find in tr3s lunas. alan has summed it all up perfectly. i love its mysterious and moody behaviour, almost every time u enter there's something different and yet recently, we could discover some hidden treasures like the space arrow world.   there are now so many combinations, so many different kind of tours u can make that almost any game is like a previous one.  i do wish it had some more to offer us.. maestro is also different to me.. ..i enjoy some parts but i'm not so keen on it, i guess it's to some extent because of the music. oblique, looking forward to more navigator images. -------------- ...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming... Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 16:02 Quote (hiawatha @ May 08 2005, 17:19) You said that the Tr3s game was better than Maestro, so I am going to get it. Well, I don't know if it's 'better'. There are parts of Maestro that are very good indeed, if you take it on its own terms. But I just think Tr3s Lunas is a completely different kind of experience. As María says - I hope you'll play online with us? Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 08 2005, 16:09 Quote (oblique @ May 08 2005, 14:34) There are more things like these in the make. We've been working on this since August 2003, and even though it's not finished you can catch a glimpse of it at my webpage. This is excellent news. Thanks for letting us see a glimpse or two. Good luck with it! Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: May 09 2005, 05:52 Quote (oblique @ May 08 2005, 15:34) There are more things like these in the make. When I first saw the Tres Lunas demo I wondered why the images where so lame (sorry Mike), and that's why I've been trying to make something similar myself, that being a game with better looking images and newly composed music (by Edoardo Fainello). We've been working on this since August 2003, and even though it's not finished you can catch a glimpse of it at my webpage. It's not complete: a large part of the music's finished and about 90% of the scenes. It's fun making this. I'll let you guys know when it's finished..... Hi, Oblique. I've just seen your images, and they're really stunning; are they real-time 3D? The problem can be that you'll need a very high-end computer to play the game. I also had the idea of doing a MVR-like game myself. I've just started with it, and I don't have any experience with anything like this, so it will be a lot time until I have something decent. My idea is to let the players make their own worlds, and then join all the worlds in one game; some kind of game made by players. Also, one thing I liked to see in MVR, and I want to put in my game, are live worlds. I mean, in MVR there are living forms, but they're just following a path, and there isn't any interaction between them and with the world; you're the only one that can make things to happen. What I like is an environment where things happen without dependency of you, where you can be quiet and still see things going on. Well, yeah, I know it's very ambitious, maybe too ambitious, but I have to try it. What do you think, am I too ambitious, am I crazy, am I stupid...? I want to see your game when it's finished. Good luck!! Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Dec. 07 2017, 03:51 Other games like Music VR? I often play 'No Man's Sky'; and while the pastel landscapes and atmospheric music are an obvious point of similarity, there's a commodity in NMS called 'Star Bulb' which looks like the medals in Maestro! There are also 'Sentinels' in NMS. Back to top

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