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Topic: Playing Ommadawn with a Black Strat< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Dec. 14 2004, 16:11

I have got a 21 fret black Fender Stratocaster at my house along with a Marshall distortion amplifier and I am thinking on having a go at playing Ommadawn.

However I have realisd that it would be very difficult reaching the high notes in Ommadawn with a 21 fret strat.

However I am considering on buying a slide as I have found out that they are reletivly cheap to buy and that it might be possable it reach the high Ommadawn notes on a strat by prehaps sliding up and beyond the 21st fret.

P.s  Does anyone know how many semitones or octaves does a slide alter a note on a strat in order to reach tones equivelant of that guitarists reach on the highest fret on a 24 fret guitar?  :)  :)

Thanks in advance.  :)  :)


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Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Dec. 14 2004, 17:52

P.s  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone at Tubular.net!!  :)  :)

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Luca Offline




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Posted: Dec. 14 2004, 17:58

Using a slide is a hell of a lot more difficult than playing with your fingers, and i dont see how you would easily get it to sound like ommadawn as playing slide gives a certain quality to the sound (not an oldfield one :P )

A slide alters the note depending on how far you slide it up the neck, there is no set amount.  You would only need to slide up a tone from the 22nd fret to reach the 24th fret, and as far as ive played and worked out, ommadawn's higest note is 22b24 on the high e string, meaning you can play it on a 22 fret guitar.

I dont know what strat you have but my one has 22 frets, which you can play ommadawn with by bending up 22 to 24.

If you want more general guitar help my i sugguest you join a guitar orineted forum, or use mans best friend, google.
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ktran Offline




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Posted: Dec. 14 2004, 21:40

A slide will not help you play notes higher than your guitar is capable of.

There are a couple of tricks:

1. like luca mentioned, you can bend from 21 up to 22, 23, or, even 24 if you're using light enough gauge strings. It's a bit of a pain, though.

2. You can play an open-string 24th fret harmonic, over the centre of the neck pickup. This works well especially when you're using overdrive.

Aside from these, you can buy a 22-fret replacement neck for strats from various companies, but this is rather extreme.


rgds,


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Luca Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2004, 14:09

Quote
A slide will not help you play notes higher than your guitar is capable of



Im sorry, but thats wrong. A slide will allow you to produce tones higher than your highest fret.. ill record you some if you want  :p

But in this case its really not going to help (as i said before)

Which bit(s) of Ommadawn are you wanting to play?
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Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2004, 15:06

[quote=Luca,Dec. 15 2004, 14:09]
Quote

Which bit(s) of Ommadawn are you wanting to play?

Oh Hi there Luca.  It is a pleasure talking to you again and thanks for your previous reply in this new topic.  :)  :)

I was just thinking that I might like to have a go at playing the following mini electric guitar solos that appear in Ommadawn:-

-Ommadawn Part 1 in between 3:39 and 4:10

-Ommadawn Part 1 in between 13:55 and 14:23

-Ommadawn Part 2 in between 6:53 and 7:11 (in front of a synth drone before Paddy Moloney's Uillean Bagpipes)

Thankyou in advance.  :)  :)

P.s  I will purchase my slide from the guitar shop with my Christmas money in the New Year sales.


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Luca Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2004, 16:59

Seriously man, buying a slide wont help. Playing slide guitar looks easy but its an art, its taken me about 2 years to get it sounding bearable. You need to use as heavy guage of strings as possible or else it sounds nasty, and that limits you to what you can play with your fingers. It really would be a waste of money as you seriously wont be able to make it sound like the oldfield solo unless you get seriously amazing playing slide (think 10 years practise)

If you want to play solos from ommadawn, the one on pt II at 12:27 is playable on 22 frets, which im sure your strat has unless its not standard (the only problem is i find its uncomfortable getting your hand that high up the fretboard)
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ktran Offline




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Posted: Dec. 15 2004, 22:13

re: slide and playing higher notes than available frets: point taken. Obviously, it shows that I've not experimented much with slide guitar.

Most strats are in fact 21 frets, with 22 being the nonstandard number on some models. I went for a quick check over to the Fender site. A good number of strat clones have 21 frets as well.


rgds,


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Luca Offline




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Posted: Dec. 16 2004, 03:06

Intresting, my one has 22  ;)

And by the way ktran, that previous post sounded rather rude, apologies  :)
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Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Dec. 16 2004, 03:53

Quote (Luca @ Dec. 15 2004, 16:59)
Seriously man, buying a slide wont help. Playing slide guitar looks easy but its an art, its taken me about 2 years to get it sounding bearable. You need to use as heavy guage of strings as possible or else it sounds nasty, and that limits you to what you can play with your fingers. It really would be a waste of money as you seriously wont be able to make it sound like the oldfield solo unless you get seriously amazing playing slide (think 10 years practise)

If you want to play solos from ommadawn, the one on pt II at 12:27 is playable on 22 frets, which im sure your strat has unless its not standard (the only problem is i find its uncomfortable getting your hand that high up the fretboard)

That's allright Luca I just wanted to try a little experiment with slide guitar after hearing On Horseback, which I really like and some brilliant country music that I heard on the radio in the recent summer just to see what it feels like and sounds like on my own black Fender Stratocaster as I have never done slide guitar before.

Yeah I did not want to learn to play Ommadawn professionaly.  I just wanted to see what it feels like and sounds like with my own black strat.  :)  :)

Does Heavy guage strings give the guitar more bass and light guage strings more treble than ordinary strings?

P.s  Thankyou Luca and Ktran for your advice in this topic.  :)  :)


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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Dec. 16 2004, 04:36

Quote (ktran @ Dec. 15 2004, 02:40)
A slide will not help you play notes higher than your guitar is capable of.

Well...it kind of will and won't. Yes, you can play as high as you want, but the shaping/placement of the cutaways on the body will limit where you can go somewhat. Trying to play beyond the end of the neck with the slide still on your finger and keep it sounding musical isn't something terribly easy. I would tend to take the slide off and hold it more like a lapsteel player would, once I get to the end of the neck (though I think you'd still be able to play a '24th fret' note using a slide on a strat without switching over like that). It's tricky to switch over smoothly (and get it back on again on the way down), but it's the only way I've personally been able to make it work...with quite good results - the last time I used the technique at a gig with a group, they thought it was the wildest thing they'd ever seen.

The trouble with using a slide for playing high notes in solos like those in Ommadawn is again one of switching over - you'd have to switch from fretting notes to playing them with a slide. With a conventional slide, that means keeping it on one finger throughout the whole solo, making that finger useless for fretting notes (because it's stuck inside a rigid tube! ). It takes quite a bit of practise to be able to fret notes with the other fingers without the slide interfering with what you're doing, and I have a feeling it would just be too limiting as far as playing the solos from Ommadawn goes.
I've seen various solutions to this in the past which involve partial slides which strap on to one joint of the finger (and being strapped on with something flexible, they then make conventional playing easier while wearing it). I'm not sure I'd recommend such things if you've never tried playing slide guitar before, though.
My personal recommendation would be a glass slide - I feel they sound better than the metal ones (or at least, thin metal ones, perhaps a heavy, smooth metal one would sound better, but they all tend to be thinner and with brushed surfaces, which I feel sounds a bit scratchy).

You can play slide using normal gauge strings and a relatively normal action, but it takes a really careful touch, and doesn't sound as good as with heavier strings (lighter strings tend not to sound as good as heavier ones generally, in fact, though that can depend...). For a while, my number 1 guitar was one strung with 11 gauge strings...it's amazing what you can get used to! It sounded good, but I play it less now.

The highest note on Ommadawn is in the solo at the end of Part One (if I remember right) - he hits a high F sharp there. You really need 22 frets for that, and light gauge strings. Remember also that Mike was playing a Gibson there, which had a stop-bar rather than a tremolo bridge. The thing with tremolo units like on the strat is that when you bend a note, you're stretching the tremolo springs too, as the string pulls the bridge up away from the body. You might not notice that happening, but it does, and it makes the notes harder to bend as a result. The scale length of the strat is also longer, making the tension of the strings slightly higher.

The classic strat (i.e. to Leo Fender's original design) is with 21 frets, the more modern versions (like the American Standard for example) have 22.
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Luca Offline




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Posted: Dec. 16 2004, 17:16

Pyrex glass slides are ok, i used them in the past, but broke too many.. it just got too expensive, ive got a big brass one which is better. Ide reccomend earnie ball power slinkies for slide strings, they are 11's but have thinner strings on the bass side, as you dont really need huge strings there, its just the treble side which needs to be thicker. If your strat has a trem on it, youll need to re adjust the tension from the springs to make the bridge sit level with the body if you put thicker strings on it.

Funnily enough, ive found mikes picking technique is great for slide, using the fingers and nails allows you to mute the strings when your not playing, cutting down on nasty slide noises.
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Craig Evans Offline




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Posted: Dec. 17 2004, 05:14

Quote (Luca @ Dec. 16 2004, 17:16)
Funnily enough, ive found mikes picking technique is great for slide.

Yeah I agree with you there Luca.  Infact that was the reason why I am considering on buying a brass slide for my black Fender Stratocaster.  Yeah thanks Luca.  :)  :)

P.s  Thankyou Korgscrew for your info in this topic also.  :)  :)


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