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Topic: Royalities distribution, What percentage might Mike get?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Matt Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2008, 16:32

Sallyangie - Children of the Sun is currently available to purchase in the UK from amazon.co.uk for £9.98. If I were to buy this, how much if the money - if any - would manage to make its way to Mike and/or Sally?

I would also be interested in the wider discussion of how percentages available to artists from their recent recordings. How much does the artist (e.g. Mike) get from a single sale of a recent album (e.g. Music of the Spheres when it is released).?


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yanouch65 Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2008, 16:34

I think about less than £1!

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2008, 17:45

In Italy, artists get a little more than 10% (13%, to be exact) of the total sales. The average price of a CD in Italy is 20 €, so I guess that Mike would get a little more than 2 €. :)

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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2008, 18:33

I know it won't be probably very productive a comment, but recently, Thom Yorke said in an interview with David Byrne that Radiohead had more profit with the sales of their most recent album, In Rainbows, alone, than with their entire catalogue prior to that, when they were still under contract. And we're talking about an album that was offered for download on the Internet and sold for the price the buyer himself chose to pay.

If we're to believe Thom's words, we can assume artists under contracts are not in a very good situation regarding income from album sales. I've always heard that their biggest source of income was from live performances, so I don't doubt that.

And yes, that also makes me rather sceptical of that whole "THE INTERNET IS KILLING MUSIC" argument, but I'm digressing.


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Matt Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 08:44

So the expectation would be that some royalties from Children of the Sun would make their way to Mike? Might go for it then!

Thanks for the replies...


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 12:03

Quote (Matt @ Jan. 29 2008, 14:44)
So the expectation would be that some royalties from Children of the Sun would make their way to Mike? Might go for it then!

Actually CotS was a 50/50 shared job between Mike and Sally. I don't really know how it works in the UK, but if CotS had been produced in Italy, according to the current rulings Mike would have gotten only fifty cents out of every copy, the other fifty going to Sally. ;)


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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 13:56

It varies massively from artist to artist. Mike famously had pretty rubbish royalties from Virgin for  all of the seventies until he took them to court round about 81-82 time I think. I think he had about a 5% royalty rate (someone could correct me if I'm wrong) for TB and the others from that time which is rubbish. But in answer to Matt's question Mike and Sally will both get royalties from Sallyangie, though probably not much.

The highest royalty rate I've personally heard of is Robert Smith of the Cure who allegedly got a 30% rate from Fiction records during the 80's and early 90's. At that time I think that was a fairly unheard of amount but Smith had a part financial interest in Fiction so i think thats why he got it (he may be bad at applying make up but he's got his head screwed on more than most) David Bowie is another I've heard gets a fairly large amount. Obviously the big sellers have the power to negotiate for big royalties as part of their contract.  

I think 10-15 is fairly average but with downloads bands can get a lot more - 60 -70% is what I've heard but then again downloads are cheaper so its a bigger cut of a lesser amount.
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Matt Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 15:14

Nice reply Toby.

Thinking about it some more, £10 is quite a bit for a bit of plastic and inlay who's production costs are - what - 30p? Assuming amazon overhead (which I imagine is fairly minimal, they are an efficient bunch) that leaves about £9 maybe. Exactly who would I be paying that £9 to and why? I wouldn't mind if a fair bit of it was likely to be going to Mike and Sally but if most of it is going to greedy suits would I be better off trying to get a copy off the net somehow and sending Mike and Sally a couple of Euros and a couple of pound coins each? Sounds more morally acceptable to me?

Edit: looking around on the net this is clearly a topic that has been done to death. Unless anyone has anything specific to Mike or Children of the Sun maybe best to leave it there!


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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 16:29

To be fair on the record company as far as Sallyangie is concerned your £10 is probably quite well spent. I don't know who owns the rights to Sallyangie these days but I'm pretty certain it will be some small independent label who specialize in releasing these long lost gems that only interest a handful of people. Your money spent on it will probably go towards the label funding the purchase of other long out of production albums buy obscure acts like Sallyangie that someone somewhere will appreciate.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2008, 17:10

Edit - I see that while I was writing this, Toby made his post which expresses similar things...apologies for any redundancy in this one

The thing is that, fair or unfair, Mike and Sally agreed to it. The record company is the rightful owner of the work and can charge what they like for it. Had Mike been that concerned about the royalties, he could have bought the rights and released it himself...

That said, I'm not trying to say that I think that the way some record companies treat their artists is terribly nice. Contracts tend to be horribly convoluted, and a 15% royalty is certainly not 15% of the price of the CD you buy (at the very least, there's a deduction for the packaging and breakages - breakages tending to be calculated based on the number of shellac 78s that would get broken in a shipment...I kid you not). Some artists have contracts which pay no royalties at all, while the royalties of others have been known to mysteriously go missing.

Other things have to be taken into account, though. Certainly the physical cost of a CD and the printing is fairly low, but the costs for mastering and design will have been reasonably high, and they'll have to price the CD to make sure they cover those costs. Some of the money goes towards funding experiments, too - the things which they spend a lot of money on, but end up making a loss on (though they do have a lot of ways of making sure that doesn't happen - including the current trend of taking as few risks as possible). There will be various other costs as well - transport, advertising, all those sorts of things.

I'm not trying to say that all record companies are fair in what they charge, but rather that even the fairest, most fat cat free record company would have to charge more than just the duplication costs plus the artist's royalty - they'd not be able to stay in business and be able to support the artists (and more crucially, wouldn't be able to expand to enable themselves to take on more projects) if they didn't. Robert Fripp ran a record label for a while (Discipline Global Mobile) where artists got a 50% royalty and got to keep the copyright of their work...it launched some wonderful music, but just wasn't able to survive commercially. It's a shame, as I always thought it sounded a fantastic idea (indeed, I used to mention it in discussions like this as an example of how it's possible to run a record company that gives a more favourable deal to the artist)...it just didn't work. I'm sure there's a middle way, and it's probably one which is being followed somewhere out there - it might just be nice if it was followed a bit more often.
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