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Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: June 03 2008, 11:05 The kids were watching the film Cats&Dogs the other day and I found myself drawn in to watch it as well. I remember the first time I saw it I quite enjoyed it but each time I watch a bit of this film now I find it funnier and funnier. Each time I find the timing, script, voice acting etc. better and better. I was reminded of occasional comments here about some of Mikes albums - and albums by other artists - being "slow burners". So, what is a slow burner: I guess I would define it as something which, though it might have been found to be enjoyable when you first experienced it, only truly shines with time after many watches/listens. Classic ones for me have been Amarok and HR by Mike which I liked on first listen but as I listened further each time the like turned to love and then almost something beyond  love. They are incredible. Is it a failing of a slow burner that they don't fully expose to people on first listen/watch/read just how good they are? Or is it a positive mark of a slow burner that they are so complex and multi-layered that they can only be fully appreciated after multiple listens/watches? -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: June 03 2008, 11:38 My guess is, the meaning is "slow to burn out on". It will last a long time before one gets bored with "it". -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: June 03 2008, 12:15 My stupid oven hasn't worked right for 3 years.  It only lets me broil!  Grrr... Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: June 03 2008, 12:17 PS.  Love "Cats And Dogs".  FUN movie. -------------- Turn up the music... Hi as Fi can go. Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: June 04 2008, 05:08 Quote (Matt @ June 03 2008, 11:05) Is it a failing of a slow burner that they don't fully expose to people on first listen/watch/read just how good they are? Or is it a positive mark of a slow burner that they are so complex and multi-layered that they can only be fully appreciated after multiple listens/watches? That's an interesting question, Matt. I wouldn't attribute "failing" on the part of slow-burning art. If I eventually come around to finding it worthy of great admiration, then I blame myself for taking so long to get it. As I do with much of MO's music. Why? Why?? Why was I so oblivious that it's only now when I'm forty that I'm appreciating it? Obviously, it's because I was a nincompoop. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 04 2008, 06:40 Cloth eared too?Consult a doctor. TB3 took me ages to to get into.Would that count as a Slow Burner? -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: June 04 2008, 10:48 I can certainly relate to this concept, and I've talked about it a lot in the past. My list of 'slow burning' albums would include Tubular Bells, Hergest Ridge, Ommadawn, Five Miles Out, Crises, Amarok, Heaven's Open and Songs of Distant Earth In other words, most of my favourites! There certainly seems to be something about Mike's music that rewards deep and persistant listenings. I don't believe that being a slow burner is the fault of either the music or the listener. Several of the albums I listed above are really slow burners; Hergest Ridge and Heaven's Open took me at least five years to fully come to terms with. I'm a completely different person now than I was then (I was only 16 back then) and of course my tastes will have changed dramatically. It's not a surprise that I love albums now that I didn't (or couldn't) appreciate back then. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: June 04 2008, 10:55 To continue using TBIII as the example;  I thought it was pretty uninspired and derivative upon the first listen.  A few more listens and I was hooked.  Still a few more and I was really dismayed with myself for not having appreciated FATC in the spirit with which it was intended. I think there is an old adage that applies here when one finds a particular MO piece difficult to grok immediately.  "When the student is ready the teacher will appear".  We won't appreciate something until we are capable of it.  That could be the essential definition of the "slow burner". Of course, no generalization can be true 100% of the time.  There will always be something you might always hate.  But given enough time... You can just never tell. -------------- Turn up the music... Hi as Fi can go. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 04 2008, 11:09 I'm softeming slightly to Heaven's Open (sorry Raven) so there's hope yet -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: June 05 2008, 10:27 One aspect of some of these slow burners is that the experience you have of some bits of it changes once you know what is coming. For instance 5 mins into Amarok on first listen you might rightly wonder why you paid good money for the album. A few listens later and you have an intense experience during this section in anticipation of what is to come. Also for instance I find I now *love* the first 8 mins or so of Hergest Ridge (the revised mix) during this very subtle section I find that I am playing bits of the melodies in my head even though those notes aren't actually played in the quietest parts of the this bit of HR (not explained very well, hopefully you can figure out what I mean! ). Note I don't find this happens quite so much with the original album mix of HR which is why I specifically mention the revised... So one aspect of a "slow burner" might be that knowing the piece, either knowing the melodies or knowing what is to come, end up being an important aspect of enjoying the piece fully. Therefore it *can't* have the same impact on first listen. -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: June 06 2008, 04:23 [quote=Matt,June 05 2008, 15:27][/quote] Quote So one aspect of a "slow burner" might be that knowing the piece, either knowing the melodies or knowing what is to come, end up being an important aspect of enjoying the piece fully. Therefore it *can't* have the same impact on first listen. I think that`s true of all of Mike`s longer pieces,and speaking for myself it probably plays a major part in my enjoyment and appreciation of them.I dare say it does for many others as well really.I can remember listening to The Wind Chimes the first few times and just not getting it at all.The whole thing just sounded so fragmented to me,like he was jumping from one thing to another just for the sheer hell of it.Of course a few more listens and for quite a while I thought it was the best thing he`d ever done,I was completely besotted with it. On reflection now I think a lot of that was also down to me not listening to any of Mike`s stuff for quite a while.Like I had to completely re-learn how to listen to his music I suppose.I do still really like that piece though.But yeah I think I`d been brainwashed into accepting the mediocrity coming over the twee filled airwaves back then.Like an old Yes fan bigging up the virtues of Asia to themselves,even though they knew deep down inside it was pure unadulterated pap.So maybe that plays a part in it as well I think.You know whether the music is "complicated" or not there are certain styles that can take a little longer for some people to get used to.Whether that style is inherent to the one artist or not. Recently I`ve just started listening to a singer/songwriter called Joanna Newsom.Mainly because she kept getting all these Kate Bush comparisons every time I stumbled accross her name,and the fact that people were kind of raving on about her music somewhat.First time I heard her voice though I could`nt believe it.Like Bjork crossed with Tiny Tim with all these weird inflections in her word pronounciation...And a lisp! I just thought no way am I even going to be able to take this seriously let alone be entertained by it.But then a little perserverance and I`m completely hooked would recommend her to anybody.Even though I`d probably still describe her voice exactly the same way.But then my first reaction to seeing Kate Bush on Top Of The Pops all those years ago was like who let the mad bird in on the piano.Oh my god she wants locking up. Back to top

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