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SunkenForest Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: Jan. 2010 Posted: April 12 2010, 18:30 Am I crazy or am I the only one who hears MB's "Sunlight Shining Through Cloud" in every single instrumental interlude in this album? For an example, listen to the last half of "moonwatch". Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 12 2010, 21:13 Quote (SunkenForest @ April 12 2010, 18:30) Am I crazy or am I the only one who hears MB's "Sunlight Shining Through Cloud" in every single instrumental interlude in this album? For an example, listen to the last half of "moonwatch". No, in most of Mike's works you can hear echoes from other compositions of his. For example, there's a melody in "Outcast" that reminds me of the song "Discovery". Back to top

Delfín Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: Nov. 2000 Posted: April 13 2010, 06:42 Quote (nightspore @ April 13 2010, 03:13) In most of Mike's works you can hear echoes from other compositions of his. For example, there's a melody in "Outcast" that reminds me of the song "Discovery". Which melody is that?? I'm quite curious. -------------- The most precious thing I possess, is knowing the answer's yes Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: April 13 2010, 06:49 Quote (SunkenForest @ April 12 2010, 18:30) Am I crazy or am I the only one who hears MB's "Sunlight Shining Through Cloud" in every single instrumental interlude in this album? For an example, listen to the last half of "moonwatch". Are you meaning the intro and back up sounds into the song -"Amazing Grace" or to the tune, where it goes - "..where the sunlight shining though the clouds.."? -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 13 2010, 07:32 Quote (Delfín @ April 13 2010, 06:42) Quote (nightspore @ April 13 2010, 03:13) In most of Mike's works you can hear echoes from other compositions of his. For example, there's a melody in "Outcast" that reminds me of the song "Discovery". Which melody is that?? I'm quite curious. To me, the melody at 1'31" (and again at1'41" and various other times) in "Outcast" is like the melody at 34" in "Discovery" (where the singer says "Can anyone tell me..."). Back to top

SunkenForest Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: Jan. 2010 Posted: April 14 2010, 12:18 The whole thing is really nifty, but then sometimes it bothers me, because I will KNOW I heard something somewhere else.  all the time. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: April 14 2010, 12:55 The Inner Child and Top of The Morning make it a masterpiece. It should not have even been called TB3. It was a totally different album..... -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 14 2010, 20:55 Quote (Scatterplot @ April 14 2010, 12:55) The Inner Child and Top of The Morning make it a masterpiece. It should not have even been called TB3. It was a totally different album..... "Top of the Morning" yes, "The Inner Child" not really. It reminds me of Pink Floyd's "The Great Gig in the Sky", which has always made me want to tell Clare Torry (I think that was her name) to put a sock in it! Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 15 2010, 09:22 The Inner Child reminds me of The Power of Love. 'CUZ I'M YOUR LADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY The chorus uses exactly the same hook! Just listen! In The Great Gig in the Sky, the over-the-top vocals at least make sense, because they represent death, of all things, and they're spontaneous (story has it that Torry personally apologised the band for that take, and was shocked when she discovered they chose it). The Inner Child, on the other hand, has a completely fake, non-spontaneous air of bombast. It sounds almost Broadway-ish, yet it's meant to be serious. I think Mike has that problem of thinking loudness = emotion. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 15 2010, 18:44 @ Sir M.: I completely disagree with you on this. I love "The Inner Child", to me it's the absolute best of Mike's three "calm-after-the-storm" pieces in his three TB albums [@ Jim/Scatterplot: if Mike called it TBIII, he must have had a good reason to call it like that, don't you think? ], with TBII's "Red Dawn" being slightly inferior to it. To me the piece doesn't sound fake at all - I don't think Mike had any intention at all of being bombastic on that particular point that you refer to, I just hear it as a very well-done crescendo. Yes, those are the very same notes as in Jennifer Rush's made-famous-by-Céline-Dion worldwide hit, but while "The Power of Love" continues in a predictable, very schmalzy way by going up and up and up and up (although, as a whole, the song is, and remains, a great one), the melody in "The Inner Child", after hitting the big note, spirals downwards following unusual chords which constantly alternate between major and minor - something I always find very appealing. Pink Floyd's "Great Gig"? Nah, there's absolutely no comparison with this. And with this I don't mean that either piece is better than the other, but that they just can't be compared. PF's classic piece is (for the most part) pure improvisation, this was meticulously written out and rehearsed - the story I know about it has Rosa Cedrón playing the melody on a cello while singing along, then Mike removed the cello and left (rightly, IMHO) just her voice. I may also allow myself here to add another reason why I love "The Inner Child". I heard it down here performed as an opera arrangement; it was in a TV show with lots and lots of 'pop' pieces being given operatic treatments - a sort of an Il Divo-like thing, but with numerous singers, both male and female. Mike's piece was sung by a young soprano soloist (from Romania, I think) with a full symphony orchestra backing her and no synths at all. Well, you're free not to believe me, but to my ears it sounded just like an aria - a wonderful aria by one of the greatest opera composers ever lived, be it Verdi or Puccini or Rossini or anyone else. That's how good Mike's music can get. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 15 2010, 22:02 Quote (Ugo @ April 15 2010, 18:44) I don't think Mike had any intention at all of being bombastic on that particular point that you refer to, I just hear it as a very well-done crescendo. A crescendo usually requires some sort of tension mounting beforehand, otherwise it's merely a dynamic shifts. And there are nothing wrong with such dynamic shifts, because they usually serve to break the mood and add tension -- see The Great Gig in the Sky, or stuff such as Like Herod by Mogwai, or the very loud portions in the 2nd movement from Beethoven's 5th Symphony. The Great Gig in the Sky, for example, is not at all a crescendo: it's a very abrupt, violent onslaught of tension, and it's meant to be unsettling. In The Inner Child, though, that "crescendo" has no tension building at all, and it's just there to add a climax. Is it REALLY necessary to have a climax there? And why does it have to be SO over-the-top? Something more subtle would have worked, because it would have removed the weight from that icky, icky, icky hook (yes, I know the melody evolves from that point, but a hook is still a hook -- it grabs you at the moment and leaves a permanent mark). That same effect plagues tracks like Moonwatch and Outcast -- that last case is particularly egregious, as it sounds like Mike accidentally bumped on the master volume slider and caused the whole track's volume to go up. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 04:08 Watching this live version, she's a fabulous singer - she just wails through the crescendo with pure passion and anguish. She starts off expressing love and sadness and gradually builds to wide mouthed, no holds barred, unadulterated loss and mourning. It could even be the loss of a child. I hadn't realized before that "you're my lady" was in there, funnyly enough though it isn't a story of romance and attachment - it's about the grieving process. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 06:32 I just find the melody rather uninspiring, and the vocal just makes it "much sound and fury signifying nothing", to quote a very obscure writer. Does anyone know what part of the original TB this was a variation of? I quite like "Moonwatch", but "Top of the Morning" is the definite highlight, in my op. (All right, all right, "Outcast" has a pleasantly sinister feel at various moments, eg "Out Demon Out".) Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:13 @ Wiga: I don't feel in any way that the piece is about losing someone. To me the piece is about being totally alone. Whether you are alone because somebody left you ("left alone"), or whether you are alone simply because you have no one behind you ("living alone"), it doesn't matter. Those cries, to me, do not belong to a person who has lost someone. They belong to a person who is desperate because she is alone. This is what the piece has always felt like to me, and this is why I always found the title "The Inner Child" quite problematic to interpret. But IMHO a lot of titles of Mike's short instrumental pieces are bad, why should I worry about this? @ nightspore: this piece is a variation on TBII's "Red Dawn", which in turn is a variation of the movement of TB Part 1 called "Russian" in TB 2003. @ Sir M. : a crescendo doesn't necessarily imply tension building - only Hollywood film composers do that.  Rossini did some of the best and most memorable crescendos in the history of music, and very few of them have any real tension being created or built within them - indeed, most of them are really happy and exhilarating. And the climax in "The Inner Child" doesn't sound over-the-top at all, to me... it sounds just right. If you try to imagine it as played by a cello rather than sung by a voice, you will see that it's just right. About the sudden volume shifts, they are not that uncommon in Mike's work: they happen all over the place in Amarok, "The Lake" and "Crises" (the piece). And a sudden jump also happens in the movement of TB 1973 Part I which is called "Thrash" in TB 2003, almost exactly in the same spot as it happens in "Outcast". Anyway, if we agree that we can disagree, I think it's useless to carry this any further. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:45 Quote (Ugo @ April 16 2010, 08:13) @ Wiga: I don't feel in any way that the piece is about losing someone. To me the piece is about being totally alone. Whether you are alone because somebody left you ("left alone"), or whether you are alone simply because you have no one behind you ("living alone"), it doesn't matter. Those cries, to me, do not belong to a person who has lost someone. They belong to a person who is desperate because she is alone. This is what the piece has always felt like to me, and this is why I always found the title "The Inner Child" quite problematic to interpret. But IMHO a lot of titles of Mike's short instrumental pieces are bad, why should I worry about this? Ugo - yes, your interpretation fits too - she expresses a despair that seems to involve feeling alone, deserted or abandoned - real or imagined. The reference to "inner child" could signify a state of dependency and reluctance to seperate from the parent to become an independent person. I can't help but feel that there is also some unresolved grief reaction in that crescendo, because it's so heart wrenching. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:45 Quote (Ugo @ April 16 2010, 08:13) @ nightspore: this piece is a variation on TBII's "Red Dawn", which in turn is a variation of the movement of TB Part 1 called "Russian" in TB 2003. Thanks, Ugo. I think those pieces (ie "Red Dawn" and "Russian") are enjoyable mainly in the sense that they're introducing the "really good bits" that come right after them, whereas "The Inner Child" gives the impression of wanting to be something in its own right. I think the real reason I don't like "The Inner Child", though, is that for some reason it reminds me of the theme tune for The Godfather, which I hate. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:47 Quote (wiga @ April 16 2010, 08:45) The reference to "inner child" could signify a state of dependency and reluctance to seperate from the parent to become an independent person. Perhaps it means she's going to North Point!   Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:57 Quote (nightspore @ April 16 2010, 08:47) Quote (wiga @ April 16 2010, 08:45) The reference to "inner child" could signify a state of dependency and reluctance to seperate from the parent to become an independent person. Perhaps it means she's going to North Point!   Yes!! - that's why she's so upset. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 16 2010, 08:59 Quote (SunkenForest @ April 12 2010, 18:30) Am I crazy or am I the only one who hears MB's "Sunlight Shining Through Cloud" in every single instrumental interlude in this album? For an example, listen to the last half of "moonwatch". I've just listened to "The Bell" on TB2, and I hear "Sunlight..." very strongly in parts of that too. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: April 16 2010, 10:46 One great thing about "Inner Child" was the recording itself. Kind of like "No Dream" from Heaven's Open, it has so much dynamic range and gets SO loud, had it been recorded in the 70's or possibly 80's, it would have been badly overdriven. Not the case here. I think MO was a pioneer producer in pushing the boundaries in Dynamic Range in recording, with every new technology that came along. So some of the choir was overdriven in HR. Look at the year. This guy wringed the shammy for every decibel in his career. You have to respect that. You really have to respect that. -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

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