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nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 17 2008, 03:41 My apologies, Alan, for posting my inquiry about Taj Mahal in the wrong section. Just as in Maestro itself, it's all too easy to end up in the wrong room! Actually, my question is not so much how to get to Taj Mahal - I know an indirect way of doing so has already been posted in the guide - but exactly where in the spaceship it is. As I said, none of the maps posted here shows it. One unrelated snippet of information that may or may not be new, and may or may not be useful to compilers of the guide: the portals in the Castle World won't seem to let you through until all the candles in the castle have been lit. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 17 2008, 04:19 Quote (nightspore @ April 17 2008, 07:41) Actually, my question is not so much how to get to Taj Mahal - I know an indirect way of doing so has already been posted in the guide - but exactly where in the spaceship it is. As I said, none of the maps posted here shows it. Ah! I think that might be unanswerable - I don't think Taj Mahal 'is' anywhere in relation to the spaceship. I've always assumed that it's just in a separate 'dimension' you go to when you pass through the window in the dome in Blind Man's world. But actually, now I come to think of it, I don't actually know where Blind Man's world is either; or the bird cavern; or the castle - in fact I don't think I've ever really thought about this! We need the experts! Does anyone know if these places really are 'located' in the ship - or in some dimension of their own? Quote One unrelated snippet of information that may or may not be new, and may or may not be useful to compilers of the guide: the portals in the Castle World won't seem to let you through until all the candles in the castle have been lit. Thanks for the reminder - there's a huge amount of detail like this that we haven't covered yet. Back to top

a_r_schulz Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: Sep. 2001 Posted: April 17 2008, 05:30 Well, in my opinion, we have on one hand the ship, which is definitely floating somewhere in space and has lots of rooms, of which all are clearly identifyable when viewing the ship from the outside, and also all are accessible when you are inside, so there is apparently no space left in the ship for any of the other areas that can be reached through the different portals (pyramids, circular windows, hexagonal windows). On the other hand, most of these 'off-ship' locations are clearly meant to be located on the surface of some planet (like Terrain, Stairs/Jets, House of Doors, etc.), or below, like the cave. Some others apparently are floating somewhere in the air, like the big medal and the platforms with the jets medal. Finally, you have the Atomium, which is definitely somewhere in space, and Inviz, which as definitely is a completely alien world. So, I'd say the portals are some kind of 'Star Trek Transporters', that take you from the ship to somewhere else (usually some planet). Next argument would be whether we might have (and if yes, how many) several different planets for the different locations... For the castle gates, my impression was that they provide access to worlds that are not accessible otherwise, i.e. where you have too few or too many medals to pass the corresponding pyramid gates, but I'll have to verify that occasionaly. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 17 2008, 05:43 That makes a lot of sense, I think - thanks Andreas. What's clear, I think (however we interpret things in detail) is that the entire Maestro world isn't 'mappable' - only the separate bits. Unless we do some inventing of our own! Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 17 2008, 08:52 Quote (a_r_schulz @ April 17 2008, 05:30) On the other hand, most of these 'off-ship' locations are clearly meant to be located on the surface of some planet (like Terrain, Stairs/Jets, House of Doors, etc.). The only thing that seems to contradict this hypothesis is the presence of the invisible walls - these give the impression that Terrain, Desert White etc are just as much "on ship" as some of the more obviously "on ship" worlds. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 17 2008, 10:32 Quote (nightspore @ April 17 2008, 12:52) The only thing that seems to contradict this hypothesis is the presence of the invisible walls - these give the impression that Terrain, Desert White etc are just as much "on ship" as some of the more obviously "on ship" worlds. I suppose we just got used to those barriers as part of the natural order of things because they were always present in Tr3s Lunas. In fact, 'getting through the barriers' became a major preoccupation in TL - something that seems virtually impossible to do, in Maestro (more's the pity). Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 18 2008, 10:53 Quote (Alan D @ April 17 2008, 04:19) Ah! I think that might be unanswerable - I don't think Taj Mahal 'is' anywhere in relation to the spaceship. I've always assumed that it's just in a separate 'dimension' you go to when you pass through the window in the dome in Blind Man's world. When you say "the dome" in the Blind Man's world, do you mean that double stained-glass window? I suppose it has to be that, because apart from the desert, the blind man, and the rainbow, there's nothing else! I ask all this because I'm (obviously) new to Maestro, and the Taj world is the only one I haven't been in yet - with the obvious exception of Mike's room. I notice that when you enter one of the double windows in the Blind Man's world you end up in the Bird Cavern. According to another post in the forum, a tunnel in the Bird Cave takes you to Taj. Can you provide a bit more information how to get to the tunnel, please? Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 18 2008, 12:58 Quote (nightspore @ April 18 2008, 14:53) When you say "the dome" in the Blind Man's world, do you mean that double stained-glass window? I suppose it has to be that, because apart from the desert, the blind man, and the rainbow, there's nothing else! Ah! The domes don't appear until you need them. Not sure how much you want me to give away here - but you'll find an answer in the thread about the gravitar quest here. Quote According to another post in the forum, a tunnel in the Bird Cave takes you to Taj. Can you provide a bit more information how to get to the tunnel, please? Right here and now, I can't recall any way of getting to the Taj from the bird cavern. Can you point me to the post where it says this? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 18 2008, 22:13 Sure, it's in the "24 medal quest" part of the guide: see the Thin Man's post under Medal 22. Thanks for the information about the dome: " After you have given the nine medals to the Blind Man go to the left hand dome at the far end of Blind Man’s World.  Pass through the stained glass window found inside and you will be transported to the Taj Mahal". I see here that you need at least nine medals in order to get to Taj. Still, at least that's an improvement on the 21 needed to get there the other way. Part of the problem is that the computer I use to play Maestro I share with someone else, and I don't often get a really long period of time to play. Another complication is that I'm not very good at the Jets game, which, of course, is where you have to start the medal quest. The other night I got three jets quite quickly, using the snail as an avatar - but the fourth jet just wouldn't appear often enough for me to take potshots at it. (I tried playing the game without an avatar a while ago, and managed to get one jet by strafing the horizon.) Oh well, practice makes perfect. I can now light the candles in the castle really quickly, whereas before (as I said elsewhere) it was very hit and miss. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 19 2008, 01:08 Quote (nightspore @ April 19 2008, 02:13) Sure, it's in the "24 medal quest" part of the guide: see the Thin Man's post under Medal 22. Ah, I see! Yes, but that trip to the Taj only becomes possible when you have 21 medals. There's no general route from the Tubular tunnels that you can take at any other time. Quote I see here that you need at least nine medals in order to get to Taj. Still, at least that's an improvement on the 21 needed to get there the other way. But to do the Maestro gravitar quest, those 9 can be any nine - you don't have to start with jets. If you grab the one in the spire above the model castle, and the 4 on the roof, you can pick up the other three from any place you find easy (eg bird cavern, crab, scorpion) - so you can be on your way to Blind Man's world in a matter of a few minutes. Quote I can now light the candles in the castle really quickly, whereas before (as I said elsewhere) it was very hit and miss. If you enter the castle via the blue shield to the birds cavern, then straight through the big multicoloured window, you'll find everything already activated in the castle, with no need to light the candles. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 19 2008, 11:13 Well, I collected eight medals and went to the Blind Man's World. However, the light was blue, and I found the space lift showed up only after I went back and changed the light to dim. I collected the ninth medal and gave them to the blind man. I then collected the two medals on top of the two domes. One of the stained glass windows wouldn't let me pass, but the other took me outside the spaceship! So I still haven't seen the Taj Mahal. Was it a mistake to collect the two medals before trying to reach the Taj? Also, I accidentally latched on to a gravitar; I don't know whether this affected things. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 19 2008, 12:03 Quote (nightspore @ April 19 2008, 15:13) Well, I collected eight medals and went to the Blind Man's World. However, the light was blue, and I found the space lift showed up only after I went back and changed the light to dim. I think you may be discovering things here that we've never formally recognised. I have myself noted on occasion that the space lift was missing in Blind Man's world, but I'd never related it to the light. (Maybe someone like Andreas or Colin has?) Quote I collected the ninth medal and gave them to the blind man. I then collected the two medals on top of the two domes. One of the stained glass windows wouldn't let me pass, but the other took me outside the spaceship! So I still haven't seen the Taj Mahal. Was it a mistake to collect the two medals before trying to reach the Taj? Also, I accidentally latched on to a gravitar; I don't know whether this affected things. The window that takes you back home is the one on the right, as you look towards the domes from the spacelift. The one that takes you to Taj is the the one on the left. I'd recommend trying again - and be persistent. Sometimes it takes a few firings to get through windows of this sort (I don't know why) - try firing from different distances, or back off and move in again if necessary - to trigger the transportation. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, offhand. Certainly I've often picked up the two dome medals before going to Taj - so that's not the reason. Back to top

The Thin Man Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: May 2002 Posted: April 19 2008, 15:06 Hello Nightspore!  Glad to see that you are getting into Maestro.  Happy exploring! If I interpret your post correctly you tried to enter the window in the left hand dome while you were latched on to a gravitar? I think that you should try entering the dome without the gravitar so you can get close to the window.  As Alan says, sometimes it's trivially easy to pass through the window to the Taj, and sometimes it gives you a hard time.  But persist and you should make it. The objective of this part of the game is to return the gravitars to the spaceship so I don't think it is possible to take them further away. See what happens and let us know. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 19 2008, 20:24 Thanks, Thin Man (and thanks, Alan, for your comments - I'll certainly try again). No, I released the gravitar before approaching the domes. But the window that took me outside the spaceship was the only one I could get to work. I'll try with the proper window, varying distances, etc, and see what happens. I'll also see if the spacelift is visible in musical daylight - I'll report back either way. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 20 2008, 10:33 The Blind Man's world spacelift isn't visible in musical daylight. However, the medal in the birdcave is. I also noticed, in the birdcave, a bat/pterodactyl flying about. I'd never seen this before - perhaps it appears only in musical daylight? Tonight, with a view to getting to the Taj Mahal - which is becoming like a quest for the Holy Grail - I collected my eight medals and entered the  Blind Man's World... and the program froze and had to be rebooted! After half an hour spent collecting the scorpion's medal (I find the hard part is not getting the medal but seeing the scorpion in the first place) I'm not going to try again tonight. One thing: I did notice, in my brief moments in the Blind Man's World, that the spacelift was still not present. The light wasn't dim, so either 1) I was in musical daylight (highly unlikely, as I fired at the left-hand light switch whilst in dim light, and the light brightened with no music), or 2) the spacelift's appearance is random and unrelated to light conditions. I'll make further observations. Back to top

a_r_schulz Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: Sep. 2001 Posted: April 20 2008, 18:40 Quote (Alan D @ April 19 2008, 18:03) I think you may be discovering things here that we've never formally recognised. I have myself noted on occasion that the space lift was missing in Blind Man's world, but I'd never related it to the light. (Maybe someone like Andreas or Colin has?) Been there.. as I already pointed out in the gravitars spoiler thread, the appearance of the platform indeed seems to depend on the light condition, and the sequence seems to vary at random for each game. @nightspore: Better have another look at that 'bat/pterodactyl' in the cave? From rumors I heard about dragons, they can become very upset if you don't address them properly, let alone mistake them for a bat... Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 21 2008, 10:23 Quote (Alan D @ April 19 2008, 12:03) The window that takes you back home is the one on the right, as you look towards the domes from the spacelift. The one that takes you to Taj is the the one on the left. I'd recommend trying again - and be persistent. Sometimes it takes a few firings to get through windows of this sort (I don't know why) - try firing from different distances, or back off and move in again if necessary - to trigger the transportation. I've had a second try at entering the Taj - still no luck. Part of the problem is that I have nothing to "fire" at the stained glass window!  There's nothing in the bottom left corner of the screen for the space bar to shoot. I tried running at the window about a dozen times from different directions, but all that happened was that I bounced off! So I gave up and decided to take a gravitar for a spacelift ride. Unfortunately, I lost it en route, and when I arrived at the giant medal there was nothign I could do except spin, and approach to within a certain distance! Oh well, you live and learn. Still, I'm puzzled about the Taj difficulty. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 21 2008, 13:43 Quote (nightspore @ April 21 2008, 14:23) I've had a second try at entering the Taj - still no luck. Part of the problem is that I have nothing to "fire" at the stained glass window!  There's nothing in the bottom left corner of the screen for the space bar to shoot. I tried running at the window about a dozen times from different directions, but all that happened was that I bounced off! Oh! Oh! Oh! I am so sorry! We have been feeding you misinformation! (If we'd made this guide years ago, when we were playing every weekend, we might have avoided this, but the truth is I think we're all a bit rusty...) I went back out there myself and checked this out. And the grim truth is (you'll want to hit us, I think) that you can't get into the Taj until THE FIRST THREE gravitars have been brought home. You're absolutely right - you can't get through that window at that early stage of the Maestro quest. What happens is that, when you've taken all three gravitars home and go back to feed the Blind man another 9 medals, of course there are no gravitars left by the exit tube because you've taken them all. The 4th gravitar is in the Taj - and NOW you can get through the coloured window in the dome (no firing needed - just pass through it). Only at that stage does the window let you through. If this all seems too much, let me reassure you that the additional trips are a lot faster than the first one, because you can get the two medals from the domes, and the medal from the 4th step of the spiral staircase when you return in musical daylight. Then the 4 on the roof and the medal above the model castle, in the spire, gets you back up to 8 again, so back you go to blind man's world. Also, you don't have to take the gravitar back in the spacelift, if you want to speed things up even more. You can get back home a lot more quickly by firing hats at the window in the right hand dome, once you've collected a gravitar. Incidentally, to get the first 8 medals, I find a good combination goes like this: blue shield to bird cavern, get medal, through coloured window to castle, through painting to balloon world, get medal from statue, back through tube to stairs, get 4 medals from roof, get medal from crab (not scorpion because crab is easier), get medal from spire above model castle - and you're done. The point is that all these medals are easy to collect. And after you've done one gravitar the medal collecting is loads quicker and easier. There - I hope this helps, and I'm so sorry we misled you about the access to the Taj. The makers of the Maestro Guide, all grovelling, is not a pretty sight. [Later: one last thing. After all this trauma, let me assure you that it really, really is worth persevering. The journey to the Taj, the getting of the 4th gravitar, and the final leap into Maestroland, really are among the great highpoints of the game.] Back to top

The Thin Man Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: May 2002 Posted: April 21 2008, 14:24 Oops!  Yes, of course.  I'd forgotten that.  It seems so obvious now.  Sorry. <Shuffles sideways out of room> Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 21 2008, 22:30 Thanks Alan and Thin Man - at least I know I'm not doing anything wrong! Perhaps someone could post a picture of Taj so that I can stare longingly at it, until the moment comes when I get enough time actually to visit it! It seems to be the only world that is not illustrated in the guide, and I suppose it must have the status of the most difficult world to visit. Incidentally, Alan, your suggested list of "quick medals to collect" is almost identical to what I've been using, except that I find the horse one quite easily to collect with an avatar (although it looks quite ridiculous having a snail chase a horse! Anyway, I'll have to bone up on what the gravitar quest involves. So far I've been concentrating on the medal quest. Back to top

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