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Delfín Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: Nov. 2000 Posted: June 03 2004, 11:14 As you all may know, Amarok is well known to be the Mike Oldfield's album which sold the least copies, due to the denial of promoting it from Virgin. But it is also the one fans prefer along with Ommadawn from the most statistic studies. What does it mean? Is there any influence from the possibility of downloading music from the internet? Is it that we like the album but we don't buy it, prefet to have a CD or MP3 copy? Any idea about it??? Delfín> -------------- The most precious thing I possess, is knowing the answer's yes Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 03 2004, 12:48 It means that few people other than his hardcore fans bought it. I think Mike once said that none of his albums had sold less than a million copies, though I don't know how true that is. I would imagine that you'd find that it's one of the least downloaded of his albums as well. I don't know of anyone outside of his serious fans who even knows the album exists (except when I've told them!) let alone who owns a copy...I would say that's why the sales figures are low. Back to top

c_haese Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: Nov. 2003 Posted: June 03 2004, 13:00 I can only surmise a few possibilities, since I don't presume to speak for the whole world. I don't think a die-hard fan would seriously consider ripping off Mike by getting a piece of art such as Amarok on CD copy or MP3 without buying the CD for themselves, but that's just my opinion. Amarok's problem besides the poor marketing is that while many fans love it  dearly (me included), there are some fans that just don't like it at all. Amarok is a very polarizing album; you either love it or hate it, without much of a middle ground. Would-be fans are possibly put off by all the negative criticism, not wanting to take the risk of buying an album they'll end up hating. In my own case, downloading actually had a positive sales impact. I was interested in Amarok because many fans like it so much, but I was afraid I might turn out to be in the group of people that hate it. I found an MP3, listened to it, immediately fell in love with it, and decided to buy the CD. If it hadn't been for the opportunity to "try before you buy" I might still not own the CD. Just my two cents, Carsten Haese. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: June 03 2004, 18:20 There is (or rather was) certainly no influence from the internet, after all Amarok came out and flopped in 1990. I remember when I first heard Amarok and thinking it was going to put Mike back on the map but of course it did nothing of the sort. However it did get some very favorable reviews, contrary to what some fans think. My theory is that had Mike kept touring through the late 80's and early 90's things would have turned out differently. I think the massive commercial failure of Amarok was partly to do with it being a very particular sounding album and partly to do with Mike having next to no public profile left anywhere, sadly a bit like now really. Contrary to Korgscrews experience I've actualy been quite suprised a few times over the years by some people who as soon as you say you like Mike say 'Isn't Amarok an amazing album?'. I quite like the fact it's got a kind of cult status now, it's like having a well kept secret that only you and a few other people know about. Tellingly in that interview with Massive Attack, that used to be linked to from this site, they were discussing how one of them likes Tubular Bells and the journalist immediately asks them if they've heard Amarok and says it's Mike's best album. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: June 04 2004, 06:16 Somehow I almost like the idea of having a special fantastic album only heard by Mike Oldfield fans. It's almost like a secret club: we've all commited to joining and we are rewarded with the most amazing music you could possably want. It kind of makes you feel powerful in a way. More seriously, it is a strange phenomenon, and rather unfortunate too in a way. It makes me think of all the people who would love the album but have no idea that it exists. It also makes me think of all the albums that I might really really love but I have never heard of. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 04 2004, 07:16 It could be also due to the fact that Amarok is a completely unaccessible album, it wasn't used as a soundtrack in a famous movie, it didn't have much promotion, and it flopped and was forgotten quickly... And the fact that those were the 90's. Back in the 70's, there was the whole Prog movement, and albums like Thick As A Brick, Tubular Bells and Dark Side Of The Moon impressed people. 20 years later, things got a bit different. People are afraid of music like this, they just didn't bother. Amarok is Mike's most hardcore album, and I'm not surprised that it "flopped". Though I have to say, the biggest culprit was Virgin. If they had given the album the right treatment, I'm sure it could have been an absolute smash. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 04 2004, 08:16 Quote (raven4x4x @ June 04 2004, 06:16) It makes me think of all the people who would love the album but have no idea that it exists. Well yes, I'd never heard of Amarok until I found this site a couple of weeks ago.  It's in none of the stores in my town, so it looks like I'm going to have to buy it online, which I don't much like doing. I'm already thinking I'm going to love it, but i could be wrong..... Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: June 04 2004, 13:10 I'm not sure what to make of that whole Mike verses Virgin situation. We've only ever heard Mike's side of the story and never Virgins half, and as we all pretty much know Mike can be less than easy to work with sometimes. Anybody who works in the music buisness will tell you that playing live often is the biggest key to success. In the late 80's Mike seemed to blame everybody but himself for his massive downturn in sales. As I said earlier had he played live and kept his profile up it would have been different for him. Obviously Amarok is a pretty 'difficult' album in some ways but it's also got some of his most catchy and momorable tunes on it. Had some imagination been put into promoting it, and yes Virgin could have and should have done that, it would have made it's mark in some way I'm sure. Although to be fair there was some promotion for Amarok, that radio treasure hunt thingy and Virgin (although I've heard Mike say it was him who paid) did take out full page adverts in the likes of Q magazine (more than WEA have ever done with Mike recently) so it would be wrong to say nothing was done. Perhaps little was done in the right way, which is something that looms heavily over a lot of Mike's career if you ask me. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 04 2004, 13:51 I'd say that a lot was at work there... Richard Branson had wanted to call it Tubular Bells II - Mike obviously didn't want to because it wasn't Tubular Bells II (though I think it could easily have been sold as that...), but I think from a marketing point of view, it would have helped sell it. It could well be that Mike was in a rather difficult mood at the time, and Virgin just gave up on him... I would think that even marketing it along the lines of "Amarok, the Tubular Bells of the 90s" (though with Tubular Bells II in his sights, it's doubtful whether Mike would have been happy even with calling it that) would have been a good move, though of course it was a move which was never made. It is a 'difficult' album though, as Toby says - I can't imagine it ever having found huge mass market acceptance, though it could well have gained a wider acceptance than it did. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: June 06 2004, 04:07 Even if it is a difficult album it still could have gained some fame as a 'mad' album such as Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica (not that I've heard that album but with a name like that...) or any Frank Zappa album. I'm not sure if Mike would have wanted one of his albums to become notorious in this way, but if Amarok is to get any sort of fame then this is the more likely alternative. I'm not sure that it could have been a smash: prehaps in the 70s as Sir Mustapha said, but in the 90s it just would have been too far out. Thinking like a music promoter here, where would the singles come from? It is a piece of music that is totally the opposite of all the 'popular' music out there today, and it will be a really strange day when an album like Amarok makes the top 20. A good day, but a strange one. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 06 2004, 10:01 Calling Amarok "Tubular Bells II" would have definitely helped - or do you think that if the actual "Tubular Bells II" was called something else, it would have sold as well? I don't think so! And yes, Amarok could have easily been notorious in a 'weird' way (though Trout Mask Replica, should I say, is 40 times more bizarre and weird than Amarok ), but as it is, people just don't know it. If it had had some success, you could ask people about it and they'd say "oh, yes, Amarok, that really long album with one track in it." As it is, they'll just frown and say "what?" -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: June 10 2004, 09:34 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 06 2004, 10:01) Calling Amarok "Tubular Bells II" would have definitely helped - He actually could have done this with some reason, as "Amarok" does contain tubular bells at a similar climactic point to where they appear in the named "Tubular Bells" works. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 10 2004, 10:21 Yes - I think it could easily have been marketed as Tubular Bells Part 3, or something like that. Of course, as was discussed elsewhere, around 1989 he was talking of doing Tubular Bells Parts 3 and 4 - somehow between then and 1992, the idea changed into the reworked Parts 1 and 2 idea which we all know. I can't help thinking that Parts 3 and 4 would have been the more interesting choice...indeed, I think it would still be a very good thing for him to work on. Just maybe best if he calls it something other than Tubular Bells, lest the cynics eat him alive... Back to top

Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1868 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: June 10 2004, 15:31 Yes, that would be interesting. That's what Jean-Michel Jarre did with Oxygene 7-13 (that's the name of the album, the first one had 6 tracks: Oxygene Part 1..Oxygene Part 6, and the second one started from Oxygene Part 7). The album title Oxygene 7-13 is not that great, but the idea to start from Part 7 is interesting. Muscially Oxygene 7-13 is to Oxygene what Tubular Bells III is to Tubular Bells. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: June 10 2004, 15:46 THat's quite an interesting thing to say, really. To me, Tubular Bells III had Mike trying to update the idea of Tubular Bells to the 90's, and in Oxygène 7-13, Jarre had his hi-tech synths trying to go back in time, instead. Ok, so he did bring in technoish beats, but I guess that's meant to be seen as Oxygène progressing through time. It sounds more genuine than Tubular Bells III, to me, though I think Jarre was way too influenced by Chronologie when the made the album. Yep, I also think that the title "Oxygène 7-13" sounds a bit contrived, though "Tubular Bells II" sounds a bit more gratuitous. Whatever, I agree when you say it would have been very interesting to see what parts 3 and 4 of Tubular Bells would sound like. I think that's a far better idea than what Tubular Bells II turned out to be. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Jammer Group: Members Posts: 643 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 10 2004, 16:30 I think Amarok is too mighty to be considered a sequel. As Mike says, it took on a life of its own to become a stand-alone episode With the Tubular Bells name it might have encouraged Mike to create a more accessible instrumental. It was probably down to how Virgin treated him that made history take the course that it did. I prefer how things turned out. Tubular Bells part 3 would never have been as spectacular as Amarok was by any stretch of the imagination. We can only imagine how it might have sounded - would it have been cyclic like Incantations, or would it have consisted of unrelated material like the shorter parts in Platinum? If Amarok was Tubular Bells Part 3, I think a more fitting title would be "Tubular Bells Parts 3-55 (with reprises)" Back to top

sohfar Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 10 2004, 17:47 I believe AMAROK to be Mikes greatest work.  It certainly has a life of its own unlike any other album.  I'm sure it did'nt take Mike long to realise this when he started recording and it was taking shape (Or should I say coming alive).   I don't think it could ever have been a TB.  I think Mike played Dr. Frankenstein when he gave this little monster (Angel) it's voice. It makes me happy and makes me smile every time. -------------- HEALTH WARNING This record could be hazardous to the health of cloth-eared nincompoops. If you suffer from this condition, consult your Doctor immediately. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 10 2004, 19:37 From the way I understand it, there wouldn't have been any danger of the name influencing Mike's approach to the music - it was after it was finished that Richard Branson suggested calling it Tubular Bells II. I'd agree though, that if he'd started off with the intention of creating another part of Tubular Bells, it may have taken a different course...but then, intending to create a sequel to Ommadawn turned into Amarok...so who knows, things take unexpected paths sometimes. Back to top

sohfar Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 10 2004, 20:52 It's only a fairytale innit? -------------- HEALTH WARNING This record could be hazardous to the health of cloth-eared nincompoops. If you suffer from this condition, consult your Doctor immediately. Back to top

Brewer Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: July 2002 Posted: June 19 2004, 00:01 Amorak is primarily a 60 min piece that was made especially for CD. You have to remember that back in the late 80's, CD's were still in their infancy. Most people didnt have a CD player and still bought Vinyl albums. Im not even sure weather it was released on Vinyl. -------------- Maker of MOs favourite beverage No trees were harmed in the creation and sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced Back to top

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