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Question: The cover :: Total Votes:21 Poll choices Votes Statistics I like it. 6  [28.57%] I love it!! 4  [19.05%] I don't care about it 5  [23.81%] I rather dislike it 4  [19.05%] It's horrible! 2  [9.52%] Guests cannot vote

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Delfín Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: Nov. 2000 Posted: Nov. 24 2010, 18:38 Let me share my thoughts about the cover. I like simple covers. 'QE2' or 'Platinum' covers, or say 'TB2', 'TB3', even 'Tres Lunas', have a special charm to it, some minimalistic thing. But I find the cover of 'MOTS' way too plain, logic, geometric and artificial, and completely unable to capture the poetry and sentiment which flow all over the music of the album. I thing we're into the worst spell in MO's covers, 'cos being interesting for its technique, Light & Shade fails to evocate as well in my humble opinion. I miss passed-away Trevor Key's genius in conceiving original and creative covers like 'Crises', 'Platinum' or the very 'Tubular Bells'. I feel Mike has lost a bit of the focus on the covers, and I really think one of the most important things for giving you a concept of the album you're listening to is the cover. Do you imagine 'Five Miles Out' without the breath-taking painting from Gerald Coulson, or wonderful 'Discovery' without the strange, shady dark blue picture in the cover?? What kind of a picture would you have about them albums?? Imagine 'Tubular Bells' all in red with purple, huge letters in the middle!!!! Am I right or only in some part?? -------------- The most precious thing I possess, is knowing the answer's yes Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 24 2010, 19:20 I love it. I think the MotS cover fits the music splendidly. Classical music has always been associated with reasoning, with things you do with your brain. Of course emotion is also a big part of classical music, but the very concept of it, since the very earliest times (since the Baroque era, in fact) is that classical music is a sort of music where everything is perfectly measured, where everything is calculated, where there isn't a single thing out of place, nor it is supposed to be. It's a kind of music that's created with the brain, even if it goes to the heart. It's associated with logic, mathematics and geometry. Also, the theoretical concept of "music of the spheres" itself is strongly linked to mathematics, physics, geometry and geography. This is why I think that a geometrical, logical and computer-generated image is perfectly fitting both to the music on the album and to its title. Also, some elements in it remind me of M. C. Escher's work. I've always loved Escher. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

ex member 892 Group: Members Posts: 827 Joined: July 2008 Posted: Nov. 25 2010, 12:32 The cover is by far the best thing about MOTS... Not that that's saying much (sorry, don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything). Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Nov. 25 2010, 17:29 I love it very much, I think it's a very cleverly constructed image. AND I have been listening to the album more just lately, it is a very strong piece of work in my view. I'm hearing and feeling more with each listen. I'd be more than a little bit interested if he ever decided to do anything similar again.  He can easily be considered a classical composer. I am beginning to feel as protective towards it as I do to Ommadawn. Tubular Bells and Amarok are my other two favourites but they can stand up for themselves I think!  Ommadawn and Music of the Spheres have a little vulnerability about them. Weird, but it's how I feel! -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Nov. 25 2010, 18:30 I think it's terrible. It looks like cover art for math course litterature. It could be Mike's worst cover if it wasn't for The Millenium Bell. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 25 2010, 20:21 Quote (Syd B @ Nov. 25 2010, 12:32) The cover is by far the best thing about MOTS... Not that that's saying much (sorry, don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything). For once I completely agree with you, Syd. I also disagree that the music is "classical". It's not; it's just pop played with an orchestra. I think TB2 is far more classical in its concern with motif, variation, recapitulation, etc. So is "Crises" (the track, not the album). Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 01:43 Quote (nightspore @ Nov. 26 2010, 01:21) Quote (Syd B @ Nov. 25 2010, 12:32) The cover is by far the best thing about MOTS... Not that that's saying much (sorry, don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything). For once I completely agree with you Whoa, controversial !! -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 05:24 @ nightspore: of course, the music in MotS has nothing to do with the music of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, etc. because it doesn't sound like that - it sounds like a film score. But in today's genre classification (or labelling) the term "classical" is applied to any kind of music which is played only with classical (i.e. orchestral) instruments and it's not a soundtrack. MotS does definitely sound like a soundtrack (at least to me), but it's not, at least in its conception. @ Lars: as I said, the music is related to mathematics, so the cover is bound to reflect that. I like it exactly for that reason. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 05:39 Quote (Ugo @ Nov. 26 2010, 05:24) @ nightspore: of course, the music in MotS has nothing to do with the music of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, etc. because it doesn't sound like that - it sounds like a film score. But in today's genre classification (or labelling) the term "classical" is applied to any kind of music which is played only with classical (i.e. orchestral) instruments and it's not a soundtrack. MotS does definitely sound like a soundtrack (at least to me), but it's not, at least in its conception. @ Lars: as I said, the music is related to mathematics, so the cover is bound to reflect that. I like it exactly for that reason. Hi Ugo, I agree it sounds like a film score. But I disagree that the use of orchestral forces suffices to classify music as "classical" - the music of James Last, for example, uses nothing else but is classified as "easy listening" (by polite people, anyway!   Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 06:23 Well, as far as I know, James Last has drums and percussion and bass and guitars in addition to the orchestra, and the orchestra itself is very often quite heavily processed (with lots of reverb, etc.). He didn't invent the "easy listening" genre - Ray Conniff did. Today everything that's played only with an orchestra (no drum kits, no guitars, no electrification of anything) is "classical". TB2 is surely inspired by structures and features which are very typical of classical music, but its instrumentation and its overall feel are very much pop - early Nineties pop, to be precise. Maybe the pre-Trevor Horn (or de-Trevored) versions are a bit less pop, but the instrumentation is always the same, and it's not actually "classiical". -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 08:13 This is classical! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umKEj_fFNBw -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 09:58 I have disliked the cover since the first day -- it's ugly and quite painful to look at. It's sort of like an AutoCad student trying to impress his teacher. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 18:28 @ Lars: are you sure? It sounds like bad rock to me. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Nov. 26 2010, 19:24 Quote (nightspore @ Nov. 25 2010, 20:21) I also disagree that the music is "classical". It's not; it's just pop played with an orchestra. I strongly disagree with this...I am not clever...I have had an ordinary, very general education ( though I am doing something about this now ) so I cannot stand up and give a structured argument as to why I think this is classical music, BUT it feels like it is, it sounds like it is, it asks me to listen to it the way classical music asks me to listen - so I may not be using the 'correct' technical judgements you obviously know about, but you simply can't call it "pop played with an orchestra" for heaven's sake!!! I think Karl Jenkins might also like to take issue with that statement. Mike Oldfield, even when he does do 'pop', still manages to say more than you would normally expect from pop - that's probably why he's never been the huge success in the charts like some others. The masses just don't 'get' what his music is all about. His music is unique, original, distinct and individual ~ that's one way to define 'classical' music. And I do think in many years time that is how he will be regarded along with Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and the others. He is way ahead of his time. -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 03:38 Quote (Ugo @ Nov. 26 2010, 18:28) @ Lars: are you sure? It sounds like bad rock to me. Hehe...it's more than a little chaotic musically I suppose. The key is the lyrics, which deal with the idea of "classical" this or that. My signature is from this song. Plus...."I know it takes a lot of stomach gasssssssssssssssss....."   -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 04:16 Quote (bee @ Nov. 26 2010, 23:24) Quote (nightspore @ Nov. 25 2010, 20:21) I also disagree that the music is "classical". It's not; it's just pop played with an orchestra. I strongly disagree with this...I am not clever...I have had an ordinary, very general education ( though I am doing something about this now ) so I cannot stand up and give a structured argument as to why I think this is classical music, BUT it feels like it is, it sounds like it is, it asks me to listen to it the way classical music asks me to listen - so I may not be using the 'correct' technical judgements you obviously know about, but you simply can't call it "pop played with an orchestra" for heaven's sake!!! In the interview below at 2:00 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI8X9o7kzoQ Mike ponders the same question. I've always thought his reply sums it up: "Is this classical music? I would say it's classical music, it's my idea of classical music anyway! " -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 04:42 @ Matt: of course Mike did conceive MotS as a classical work. He played "classical guitar" on it (I like to call it "nylon-string guitar", but that's the same! ), as well as some grand piano; he called one of the world's currently most famous classical pianists to play the main piano parts, and he called a "classical pop" soprano to sing. So, in his own mind, in his initial conception, MotS was definitely classical. What it ended up being is, of course, very open to debate. Re. Karl Jenkins [also @ bee], he's one of those guys (another is Michael Nyman) who doesn't give a flying fuck about genre classifications or labellings: he did pop, he did rock, he did jazz, he did fusion; his most popular project, Adiemus, features purely classical instrumentation, styles and structures, but also "pop" wordless singing and tribal percussion! So, if he read this, he'd be very likely to pass it all off with a sarcastic smile on his face. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 06:34 Quote (Ugo @ Nov. 26 2010, 18:28) @ Lars: are you sure? It sounds like bad rock to me. If I were feeling particularly pretentious today, I could say that The Fall represents rock at its purest form. It is bad alright, but it's the right form of bad. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 06:47 I think defining "classical" music in terms of the instruments used is fraught with peril. What if there's an orchestra plus one other non-orchestral instrument, like a saxophone? No, that won't work, because composer Vaughan Williams wrote a saxophone concerto. Also, piano sonatas are "classical", and they feature just a solo piano. Does that mean any piano solo is classical? Nah. It's better to talk about music that has at least some aspect that is aimed at the intellect rather than just whether it sounds good. The more it's oriented towards the intellect, the more "classical" it will be. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 27 2010, 07:10 Quote (nightspore @ Nov. 27 2010, 12:47) It's better to talk about music that has at least some aspect that is aimed at the intellect rather than just whether it sounds good. The more it's oriented towards the intellect, the more "classical" it will be. This is what I was saying at the beginning of this thread, when I was talking about the MotS cover art. "Classical" music is music that's created from the brain and aims directly to the brain. Regarding piano solos, well, there are different kinds. People like Giovanni Allevi are considered halfway between contemporary classical and jazz, people like George Winston and Jim Brickman are New Age. It depends. By the way, the orchestral score for Ravel's "Bolero", which is most definitely classical, calls for three saxophones. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

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