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wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 04:22 What is the "Venetian Effect " ? It sounds like a a synthesizer, but why "Venetian" ? Did Mike Oldfield invent this term ? -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 04:41 "Venetian"" with an A, from Venice. Like Venetian blinds which have a lots of thin blinds very close together i.e. high frequency. I think "Venetian effect" refers to the same note being played repeatedly very quickly. Anyone got a good link to a better explanation? -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 05:20 Quote (Matt @ Nov. 13 2008, 10:41) I think "Venetian effect" refers to the same note being played repeatedly very quickly. Anyone got a good link to a better explanation? Yes, like a mandolin played in Venetian style. (With a plectrum.) Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 06:16 If I tap 4 fingers in sequence very quickly then, over and over, (like I do on my steering wheel) - is that a "Venetian Effect" ? -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 06:55 Yes, in classical music various parts of what is now Italy are associated with various musical styles. I'm very fond of the Neapolitan style (eg Pergolesi), which tends to be very joyous (but with a tinge of "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"). Many of the Neapolitan composers wrote concertos for mandolin, by the way. Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 07:27 I think like Holger says it`s a referance to a Mandolin in some way.Atlhough reading this page here I would guess it`s maybe more to do with the "type" of mandolin,rather than the style of playing.I would also hazard a guess that "Venetian" was more than likely one of the mandolin pre-sets on whatever piece of synthy equipment Mike was using back then.But I`m maybe being a little presumptious there,and it`s quite possible Mike did "invent" it after all.Maybe he owned a "Venetian Mandolin" perhaps? Or maybe he was feeling a little bit wistful/romantic and thinking about "The Gondola Effect"?... Just a one tub-u-lar bells..give it to me.. Homer Simpson`s conceptual art-piece The Grand Canals Of Springfield,was a good example of The Venetian Effect I guess.Or maybe you could use it to describe that state of annoyance you get into when you`re trying to get both sides of the blinds to come back down in unison.Whilst wrestling amatuer/frustrated with that stringy/pully thing on the side there.I mean you`re not even sure you`re pulling on the right one there sometimes are you? "Are you OK there mate,you`re looking a little flustered"? "I`d just leave him if I were you.I think he`s suffering from The Venetian Effect." Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 08:09 Actually, I realize that the "Venetian Effect" only appears on TBII (not TB). If it is an instrument (and not a style) it doesn't sound like a Mandolin to me.  I get a cross between a wind instrument and a synthesizer. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 08:34 Quote (wiga @ Nov. 13 2008, 13:09) Actually, I realize that the "Venetian Effect" only appears on TBII (not TB). If it is an instrument (and not a style) it doesn't sound like a Mandolin to me.  I get a cross between a wind instrument and a synthesizer. You will probably find it is the name a Japaneese programmer gave to a synth effect he was creating. R     Konnichiwa. Tokyo -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 09:23 Quote (Dirk Star @ Nov. 13 2008, 07:27) Or maybe he was feeling a little bit wistful/romantic and thinking about "The Gondola Effect"?... Just a one tub-u-lar bells..give it to me.. No, I think you might be getting confused with the "Ommagasm Effect" , the phenomenon that moonchildhippy and Sweetpea have drawn attention to lately. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Guest Unregistered Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 09:51 If you look at the video from TB II Edinburgh premiere, when "the venetian effect" is announced, a man is seeing playing a small guitar/mandolin sort of instrument. I´m not a musician...so maybe the labelling is a bit of, but it is string instrument.. Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 12:04 Quote (prisoner.of.the.dark.sky @ Nov. 13 2008, 09:51) If you look at the video from TB II Edinburgh premiere, when "the venetian effect" is announced, a man is seeing playing a small guitar/mandolin sort of instrument. Well I'll be darned, - it is a mandolin looking instrument at the TBII Edinburgh premiere - though drowned out by the synths somewhat.   Is this same instrument used on the album then for the "Venetian Effect" ? I can't say it sounds like it to me. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 16:13 It's arpeggiated notes folks. A synth midi'ed to a computer. It's easiest to program these arpeggios in "step mode" with most sequencers/sequencing software. -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 17:35 'Venetian Effect'-Theory or concept devised for the sole purpose of causing debate, discussion or argument thereof. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 19:03 Maybe this is what other people already said here, so I'll try to make a kind-of compound of it: Mike was referring to Italy with "The Venetian Effect" because the sound he meant to emulate was indeed that of the mandolin, which, when played in tremolo (i.e. with the same note being repeated quickly, as Matt says), is typically Italian. The origin of this technique, though, is in Naples (Napoli) - not Venice. In classical music concertos from Venice (Vivaldi etc.) mandolins are always played with single notes. So this is a geography error by Mike. However, the sound he is supposed to be playing is exactly the one of the mandolin. Then, whether or not it actually sounds like a mandolin, or how he made it, I just don't care. The sound is there and, to me, it's nice as it is. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 23:53 Quote (Ugo @ Nov. 13 2008, 19:03) The origin of this technique, though, is in Naples (Napoli) - not Venice. In classical music concertos from Venice (Vivaldi etc.) mandolins are always played with single notes. So this is a geography error by Mike. However, the sound he is supposed to be playing is exactly the one of the mandolin. Then, whether or not it actually sounds like a mandolin, or how he made it, I just don't care. The sound is there and, to me, it's nice as it is. Thanks for backing up my suspicions on this one, Ugo - the sound is definitely Neapolitan (ie, of Naples; I'm not talking about ice cream! to me. Your point about the way the mandolin is played is interesting. I have one concerto attributed to Pergolesi but probably isn't by him (I was discussing this with Harmono some time back) where there's playing in both styles. So presumably there's a Venetian influence in this basically Neapolitan concerto. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 14 2008, 07:34 Well, continuing on this, you can hear in every single instance of actual mandolin playing by Mike (i.e. when he really plays a mandolin, not a guitar sounding like a mandolin! ) that he never plays tremolo - he always plays single notes. AFAIK the first piece where he did this is "Vivaldi Concerto in C", whose original is scored for 2 flutes, 2 mandolins, 2 violins, 2 theorbs (ancient viola-like instruments), cello, strings and continuo (check it out on this page, B2). When he plays tremolo, he always does it with a guitar or, anyway, as a guitar-based sound. And IMHO it's always meant to sound Neapolitan wherever he uses it, starting from the second movement of TB (1973) Part 2. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Nov. 15 2008, 06:16 So the true meaning of "The Venetian (or Neopolitan) Effect" is when the mandolin is played in tremolo (same note repeated quickly). I get a feeling that Mike Oldfield doesn't play completely to the book and to the rules, and this is one of the reasons I love his music so much.   I remain curious to know how others actually hear "The Venetian Effect" on the TBII album,  - the instrument or synthesized sound and the style. To my ears it doesn't fit this description. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Nov. 15 2008, 17:52 Quote (wiga @ Nov. 15 2008, 12:16) I remain curious to know how others actually hear "The Venetian Effect" on the TBII album. I always heard it as a guitar, and I still do. Regarding the phrase itself, I used to hear it as "Definition Effect" or "The Finishing Effect" before I read it on the sheet music. Sometimes I think that my versions make more sense. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 15 2008, 18:46 Quote (wiga @ Nov. 15 2008, 06:16) I remain curious to know how others actually hear "The Venetian Effect" on the TBII album,  - the instrument or synthesized sound and the style. To my ears it doesn't fit this description. I hear it as a purely electronic instrument: a very pleasantly rippling one. Back to top

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