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Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 09 2009, 17:24 What's the likelihood then of MO having a final crack at reinterpreting the great grand-daddy of them all then? In reality it has only truly happened once with TB2. TB3 hinted at both previous versions but didn't strictly speaking keep to the formulaic stages, and TMB was only vaguely connected musically. TB2003 obviously was a retread rather than reinterpretation and going right back to OTB we have an interpretation again rather than a reinterpretation. And of course, let's not forget that both Crises and Music Of The Spheres hint at the main refrain. No, we have to look to TB2 for the first alternative Tubular Bells and even that has an extra and perhaps unnecessary little sub-intro before the main intro theme - but crucially it does offer us a series of alternate passages building the whole piece. It still holds up in its own right too. TB3 is certainly the other 'version' - but far less successful in my mind. Given that there are only so many ways you can rearrange and emphasise that well-known notes sequence (or are there?) how would you establish a familar and yet original base pattern upon which to build the whole piece once again? Is it possible? Would it be worthwhile? Is it valid to regurgitate a well digested masterpiece into a slightly different meal once more? Well, I keep an open mind about these things. I remember for a long time (in the late 70s/early 80s) thinking MO would never, ever go near TB again, and blow me he hints at it with Crises and then does the job properly with Tubular Bells II a decade later. So who really knows? With: TB1 / OTB / TB2 / TB3 / TMB & TB2003 under his belt; is there really any more to say regarding this particular thematic sonic cycle? I kind of hope so. I'm hoping for a return to acoustic instruments and less computer virtuality on the next one. Perhaps a good way to achieve this would be to go right back to 'square one' (or opus one) - but this time with no computers and even no electrics - a complete album of entirely acoustic instruments, voices and even natural sounds perhaps? Tubular Bells IV - the fourth and final generation - interpretation/investigation/reinterpretation/reinvestigation or whatever you want to call it... -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: April 09 2009, 17:34 hmmm, interesting idea! I think if Mike found his "mojo" for music again there could indeed be a TB IV. TB I was originally "opus" if I remember correctly. It is really just a name for a composition. Being so good and so successful has given "Tubular Bells" a life of its own as a name and I see no reason why Mike shouldn't continue to use it that name if he has a notion for a new composition. If only... -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

clotty Group: Members. Posts: 237 Joined: Mar. 2006 Posted: April 10 2009, 02:13 Quote (Ghostmojo @ April 09 2009, 17:24) ...we have to look to TB2 for the first alternative Tubular Bells and even that has an extra and perhaps unnecessary little sub-intro before the main intro theme... ...which was undoubtedly geniously inspired by "We've been to Button Moon"   -------------- Clotty Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: April 10 2009, 07:10 I`ve never noiticed that similarity before Clotty,hilarious stuff..Of course I`m never going to be able to listen to it now without thinking of it.In fact I`m probably gonna` end up singing along to it...   We`ve been to Button Moon...La Loo Lay...We followed Mr Spoon..La Lay Loo .... Well I would`nt rule a TB4 out that`s for sure,although hopefully Mike will decide to do something else first.I can kind of see how Mike will probably feel there`s still "unresolved" stuff there in a way.But on the other hand I can also see a time where even Mike will decide that "enough is enough".Obviously it`s good marketing for Mike to keep on returning to his most famous work.And in fairness in a popular field he`s not the only artist out there to keep on doing that.I think I`m right in thinking there are three Bat Out Of Hell`s now?Not to mention all the related tours and DVD`s etc.Yeah maybe he`ll wait and see what good old Meat decides to do?And maybe this time he`ll take inspiration from Choc-A-Bloc or The Tweenies or something?         Not long after Music Of The Spheres was released,Alan D made the point here that it was not uncommon for a composer(in a classical field) to keep on returning to some of his original compositions.It`s more "accepted" and "understood" I guess,as long as what we are being presented is a "new" or "different" interperation.It was a very good point I think,and imo for an artist such as Mike Oldfield highly relevant.At the end of the day however,all you can decide yourself is whether it is something you would like to hear or not?For myself personaly I would probably greet the announcement of such a work with nothing more than "resigned curiosity" if there is such a thing!?But I`m well aware not all of us here would feel the same way. Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 10 2009, 21:06 And if you think about it the cover design is already there in the original iconic bell image - by just rotating/elongating it slightly: Perhaps something roughly like this? -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

clotty Group: Members. Posts: 237 Joined: Mar. 2006 Posted: April 11 2009, 02:28 Ghostmojo, I think you've just got yourself a job. -------------- Clotty Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 11 2009, 06:12 Quote (clotty @ April 11 2009, 02:28) Ghostmojo, I think you've just got yourself a job. Thanks Clotty. It was a very quick 5 minute photoshop job from a googled/borrowed low resolution image of TB3 (suitably adjusted) which is why it's a bit fuzzy. I might do a better version one day... I also just visited your Miles Apart site, out of interest, and listened to the extract from 'Freestyle'. Very good stuff. It reminds me a bit of Santana and Steve Hackett, with perhaps a bit of Camel thrown in? Excellent playing by all concerned mate. I'll check out the other stuff later. Cheers H -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 11 2009, 06:59 Quote (Ghostmojo @ April 10 2009, 21:06) And if you think about it the cover design is already there in the original iconic bell image - by just rotating/elongating it slightly: Perhaps something roughly like this? I wouldn't be surprised if that proposed cover art really caught Mike's attention and inspired him - he visits this site, after all (apparently). Earlier, Ghostmojo said: "Given that there are only so many ways you can rearrange and emphasise that well-known notes sequence (or are there?)" Well, the basic number of notes available for any melody is limited, isn't it? It's astonishing that so much can be constructed from so few. You could perhaps argue that all Mike's albums are "Tubular Bells" albums; it's just that some are more overtly so than others. I can't think of one that doesn't actually feature bells, for example; and even "The Wind Chimes" plays with the basic Tubular Bells melody at one point. Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 11 2009, 07:13 Quote (nightspore @ April 11 2009, 06:59) I wouldn't be surprised if that proposed cover art really caught Mike's attention and inspired him - he visits this site, after all (apparently). Earlier, Ghostmojo said: "Given that there are only so many ways you can rearrange and emphasise that well-known notes sequence (or are there?)" Well, the basic number of notes available for any melody is limited, isn't it? It's astonishing that so much can be constructed from so few. You could perhaps argue that all Mike's albums are "Tubular Bells" albums; it's just that some are more overtly so than others. I can't think of one that doesn't actually feature bells, for example; and even "The Wind Chimes" plays with the basic Tubular Bells melody at one point. Now that would be something wouldn't it NS!!! Your points are well made. I think what I would like to see - although I'm not sure MO would agree - is less of a reliance on modern digital technology and a sort of 'back to the roots' album. However, I know the studio has always fascinated him, and modern digital sound cyber-construction is as valid a way of making music as any natural instrument I suppose. But I think there is something innate in the human soul that responds more positively to naturally, human-made sounds. It is refreshing after, for example, hearing so many electric guitar solos, heavy percussion tracks by any group or artist - to then hear some nice classical guitar or unaccompanied piano. That is what led to the 'unplugged' wave of albums by all and sundry. It's also where we all start, when getting into playing music ourselves (or of course the various woodwind, brass and other stringed instruments). As for the melodies. Well Mike is Master of the Melody after all ... if he can't do it - who can? -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 11 2009, 07:28 Quote (Ghostmojo @ April 11 2009, 07:13) I think what I would like to see - although I'm not sure MO would agree - is less of a reliance on modern digital technology and a sort of 'back to the roots' album. Of course, Music of the Spheres is exactly that. And yet, that record completely leaves me cold, as do all the records before Platinum. It seems that the Exegesis procedure coincided with or led to a leap away from basic instrumentation and the melodic style of the early albums. I suspect that for various emotional reasons - and I guess we'll never know if this is the case - the Exegesis outlook wore off some time around Light and Shade - hence that record's feel of loss and desolation. The emptiness of the Maestro game, with a tombstone being the main image in "Mike's World", points in the same direction, in my opinion. Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 11 2009, 19:58 Quote (nightspore @ April 11 2009, 07:28) Quote (Ghostmojo @ April 11 2009, 07:13) I think what I would like to see - although I'm not sure MO would agree - is less of a reliance on modern digital technology and a sort of 'back to the roots' album. Of course, Music of the Spheres is exactly that Well yes, perhaps - but it has more in common with The Orchestral Tubular Bells - being the orchestra again with MO sitting in. I mean an album with MO playing all or most of the parts. Lots of pianos, organs, mandolins and guitars please . -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: April 12 2009, 02:54 I said this a long time ago but I'll repeat it. After using the TB hammering on MOTS, this was the last time. Absolute last time to re-use the TB hammering theme. Once more would shred Mike's credibility completely and he's just too damned intelligent to do that. He will either never release another album, or if he does it will be totally TB unrelated. I've watched several threads like this go on. We all are hungry for more MO music. But don't insult his IQ with another TB(four?), please. It's like saying TB is all he has left and that he lacks the imagination and technical/expressive skills to give us one more(hopefully more than one), new original work. This guy is a hero of mine(why I'm here to begin with), and this TB crutch is not something to be leaned on again, in this case a crutch every participant in this thread except me hopes he leans on. This post is not left in anger......but jeez, give Mike Oldfield some credit to have the ability(if he does it) to do a fresh/original piece of music, if one is to come....     The whole concept of you guys keeping Mike constrained to Tubular Bells suggests you doubt he has any originality or imagination left and in defense of my fav. composer I just don't like this TB 4-5-6-....17 carrying on . I'm here to stick up for -him-. He will, if interested, make an album of fresh material and is capable of it. VERY CAPABLE. Lose the TB crutch, give the man some faith in his abilities. My 2000 cents worth. Jim -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 12 2009, 03:38 Scatterplot, the hidden assumption in your argument is that the similarity in title must carry through to similarity in the music. But this is not the case; I'm largely indifferent to the original TB, whereas I think TB2 is terrific and TB3 is sometimes extremely good. Anyway, there's no harm in a composer's repeating him/herself: witness Bruckner, who virtually did the same symphony at least nine times. Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 12 2009, 06:04 Quote (Scatterplot @ April 12 2009, 02:54) I said this a long time ago but I'll repeat it. After using the TB hammering on MOTS, this was the last time. Absolute last time to re-use the TB hammering theme. Once more would shred Mike's credibility completely and he's just too damned intelligent to do that. He will either never release another album, or if he does it will be totally TB unrelated. I've watched several threads like this go on. We all are hungry for more MO music. But don't insult his IQ with another TB(four?), please. It's like saying TB is all he has left and that he lacks the imagination and technical/expressive skills to give us one more(hopefully more than one), new original work. This guy is a hero of mine(why I'm here to begin with), and this TB crutch is not something to be leaned on again, in this case a crutch every participant in this thread except me hopes he leans on. This post is not left in anger......but jeez, give Mike Oldfield some credit to have the ability(if he does it) to do a fresh/original piece of music, if one is to come....     The whole concept of you guys keeping Mike constrained to Tubular Bells suggests you doubt he has any originality or imagination left and in defense of my fav. composer I just don't like this TB 4-5-6-....17 carrying on . I'm here to stick up for -him-. He will, if interested, make an album of fresh material and is capable of it. VERY CAPABLE. Lose the TB crutch, give the man some faith in his abilities. My 2000 cents worth. Jim Jim, I think you've got the 'plot' a bit 'scattered' there if you'll forgive my dreadful pun!!! The desire to see another/new version of some sort of Tubular Bells (and my question originally was only one of idle curriosity to spark conversation) is not a suggestion that: (a) Mike is incapable of doing music without having to refer back to this or (b) It should in any way preclude him doing other things aswell It was merely the notion as to whether it was possible - for all sorts of reasons - and whether it could stand on its own two feet like TB2 did. To put your mind at rest, I actually agree with you that he doesn't need to keep refering to it. Infact, at one time I was pretty certain that he really didn't want to at all. He was done with it. And yet, he actually went through a process of rehabilitating his grand premier opus and then reexamining it again at least twice - so he was obviously (eventually) quite cool with it. In his book you can see he is more than happy with what TB means in the great scheme of things and (quite rightly) very proud of it. The fact that he has done so much else besides, more than supports your statement that he doesn't need TB as a crutch - but so what? My view is that we could have both - if he was so inclined. Another version of TB - because he wants to, rather than we want him to - and other projects as well. There's plenty of room for all of it   -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 12 2009, 10:21 Quote (nightspore @ April 12 2009, 03:38) Anyway, there's no harm in a composer's repeating him/herself: witness Bruckner, who virtually did the same symphony at least nine times. Classical music and popular music are two extremely distinct worlds (even though it's all the same: Beethoven and Napalm Death were both making harmonic noise), and while the tiniest, most subtle details in a classical work can render volumes of studies. in popular music, people who can't renew themselves end up falling into irrelevance -- and I think it's extremely unfair for Mike to fall into irrelevance due to excessive bells in the tubes (or is it the other way around?), because he has such a big and (relatively) diverse catalogue to be explored. And personally, personally, I think Mike would have greater chances to do something big again by doing something new and radical for his own standards. Music of the Spheres was a step on that direction, but spoiled by the bell presence -- it's trying to be new while living in the past. If Mike truly tore down the barriers and tried to run back to the vanguard of music (where he once was), he could have new glories ahead of him. It's what I think. Like Ted Stevens would say, "the series of tubes is not a big truck, and if those tubes get clogged, what happens to your personal Internet?" -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 12 2009, 19:41 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 12 2009, 10:21) I think Mike would have greater chances to do something big again by doing something new and radical for his own standards. Music of the Spheres was a step on that direction, but spoiled by the bell presence -- That's silly - the last albums have all been radical departures from what he's done before. In fact, none of the albums is alike: Light and Shade is nothing like Voyager which is nothing like Earth Moving.  The little bell presence is a bit like a trademark, that's all. In my opinion, Music of the Spheres was spoilt not by the bell theme but by its sounding like pre-Exegesis MO. Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: April 12 2009, 21:40 Who cares what he  does? he has made his money, had more women and kids he leaves and its ok? i feel nothing for a man who professes love etc while living it up with his wife? who knows, who cares? this creep deserves noone,dont waste time on mo, deb Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: April 12 2009, 23:58 I'm having trouble interpreting your post Deb. I sense you're either joking or angry. Mike's a creep? He might well be, I never met him. Lots of fame and adoration usually turns famous people into folks you probably would regret meeting later. Two that I heard lots of stories about that were really creepy, egotistical "stars" you would not want to meet were Phil Collins and William Shatner. Pat Metheny seemed like a really nice guy in '89. John Kay of Steppenwolf was an ok guy in '88, kind of very serious and businesslike, but nice. Those are the only two famous people I ever met, well Ed McMahon would be 3, very nice gentleman at least in '75. I get the feeling MO is just very serious, businesslike from his youtube interviews. But I think it's a 93.5% probability he's not going to release anything again. So what gives? Are you in a good mood Deb? I'm tired from moving. Very tired. Almost done, but the new place is a mess of boxes waiting to be organized at a later time when my poor muscles cool off. Writing on here relaxes me. Y'all be cool, I'm gonna work on the carpet Eddy mucked with. Today's his 2nd birthday. I got him 3 new toys. He's happy. -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 13 2009, 06:22 Quote (ex member 419 @ April 12 2009, 21:40) Who cares what he  does? he has made his money, had more women and kids he leaves and its ok? i feel nothing for a man who professes love etc while living it up with his wife? who knows, who cares? this creep deserves noone,dont waste time on mo, deb Wow. I'm staggered by that. When I first arrived on this site yours was one of the first names I noticed Debs and I assumed, from the few brief things I had read then, that you were one of the leading positive voices on the site. Now I read this. Wow (again). All I will say is that if you weren't joking (didn't see any smilies) then my take is this. I learnt a long time ago to separate somebody's personal life from their professional one. We are here to discuss music. We shouldn't comment upon people's private affairs about which we know nothing. We are all fallable in that respect. Let him without sin etc. (nice little reference given that it's Easter). e.g. Bill Clinton was a bit of a lad in his day but remained a great President IMHO... MO's private life is his own. Out of bounds as far as I am concerned. It's just not cricket you know... -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: April 13 2009, 09:01 Quote (ex member 419 @ April 13 2009, 02:40) Who cares what he  does? he has made his money, had more women and kids he leaves and its ok? i feel nothing for a man who professes love etc while living it up with his wife? who knows, who cares? this creep deserves noone,dont waste time on mo, deb How many glasses of wine did you have before that post? Would you really say the same things in the same way sober! Here's hoping not   -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

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