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nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: May 11 2008, 08:19 I've listened to TB3 a couple of times now. For me, the best pieces are "Moonwatch" and "The Watchful Eye". "Far Above the Clouds" must be the most inappropriately named piece in the Mike Oldfield catalogue! Those descending series of notes, always culminating in a final, doom-laden, ominous peal on the same note, conjure the image of a descent into hell rather than an ascent into the clouds! Tremendously effective, but very sinister (whereas "The Bell" is so joyous). Not so impressed by "The Man in the Rain": the struggle shows when you have to alter the pronunciation of words to make them fit the rhythm and beat of the song. Back to top

Ebony Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: June 2007 Posted: May 11 2008, 15:02 FATC a doom laden descent into hell?  Interesting description, though for me it's completely the opposite.  For me it's pure euphoria.  And that first deep bell sound still gives me goosebumps even after listening to it countless times.  I think it's as joyous as The Bell, just not in the same way, though I've no idea how to put that distinction into words.   I do like Moonwatch though, very much so.  It's magical, and quite otherworldly I think.  And oddly, both happy and slightly melancholic at the same time - though my mood at the time of listening probably has a great deal to do with that... As for Man in the Rain, lyrically speaking, it's not that shiny, but Mike's greatest talent never really lay in songwriting. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: May 11 2008, 17:16 If there was a poll, my nod would be for FATC, as predictable as that may be.  But a close second for me would be "Jewel In The Crown", and I realize I'm probably alone in that opinion.  It's such a great groove, and the sensual vocal is the icing on the cake.  One can imagine tendrils of patchouli wafting through the dimly-lit room, a scantily-clad dancer beckoning you to your moral doom like a siren luring you to the rocks. Yowza!   Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 11 2008, 21:51 Quote (Ebony @ May 11 2008, 15:02) FATC a doom laden descent into hell? No: King Crimson's The Talking Drum is a descent into Hell. (Far Above the Clouds IS Hell itself) -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 12 2008, 02:50 Quote (Ebony @ May 11 2008, 20:02) FATC a doom laden descent into hell?  Interesting description, though for me it's completely the opposite.  For me it's pure euphoria.  And that first deep bell sound still gives me goosebumps even after listening to it countless times. Yes, I go along with Ebony on this. The only distinction I might add would be that in FATC I feel as if I can hear a suggestion of hysterical triumphalism. It's an upbeat note, but one with a slightly desperate edge. There's euphoria, yes, but the kind of euphoria that might have a touch of bipolar about it. But then, that's in keeping with other sections of the album - the fragility of 'The Inner Child'; the deliberately interjected  pastiche of himself in 'Man in the Rain' (the inclusion of which is one of his most brilliant and subtle touches, in my view - it only works once you see that it is deliberate pastiche). I think there's a lot of autobiography in TB3, and I find the brittle defiance of FATC makes it a very brave and moving piece of work. Back to top

Tayniee Group: Members Posts: 132 Joined: April 2008 Posted: May 12 2008, 04:35 For me FATC is certainly a massive struggle with demons,  culminating in  a powerful climatic sequence, one of Mike Oldfield's best. In it the demons are conquered and victory is found.....and peace of mind (the backbirds). I was very fortunate to see this in concert '98 Birmingham, best ever concert, OMG.         -------------- As we all know, endings are just beginnings. Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: May 12 2008, 06:12 Regarding the title of this thread. I thought there was a poll for favourite TBIII track here? -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: May 12 2008, 08:13 FATC rocks!Probably one of the most manic use of wah wah ever (certainly by Mike)regardless of the method used to obtain the effect.The visual image it conjurs to me is a cloud laden white staircase going up (cetainly never down)untill it rises above the clouds to a great white cloudscape and brilliant sunset.Kick ass in a big way. The whole albums is my favourite from that period (does it show?). -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Ebony Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: June 2007 Posted: May 12 2008, 08:31 Quote (Alan D @ May 12 2008, 07:50) The only distinction I might add would be that in FATC I feel as if I can hear a suggestion of hysterical triumphalism. It's an upbeat note, but one with a slightly desperate edge. There's euphoria, yes, but the kind of euphoria that might have a touch of bipolar about it. I think that's that difference I couldn't put into words.   "the kind of euphoria that might have a touch of bipolar about it." - brilliant description! Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: May 12 2008, 12:05 I`ve mentioned this before on here,but Far Above The Clouds actually made me laugh out loud the first time I heard it.Just at the sheer over the top brilliance of it all more than anything else I think.I agree that it does give you a feeling of euphoria,but there`s also a feeling of self congratulary  release going on there as well imo.You do kind of wonder who that "scream" is directed at a little bit for instance?It always strikes me as a little bit more than self-defiance somehow.Maybe it`s the whole TB thing again for me I suppose.But the way the bell comes in on top of it,and then the bass line as well a little later.It always strikes me as a little bit self resigned as well.Like he`s burying himself in the whole ultimate tubular explosion going on around him.At that point in time I actually thought "Yeah good for you get it out of your system mate."..But thinking back now in retrospect I think he just wanted to blow his whole ego up a little bit.After being bored out of his skull stuck up that mountain for so long.In all reality I probablly empathised with that more than anything else when I think about it now.The strange thing is after all that release and euphoria at the end there.My over-riding feeling when the album finally fades into the mists is nearly always.."and now what?" Anyway that said I do agree with Alan that TB3 isn`t really a  an album to be taken too seriously.It`s entertainment in it`s purest form in a way,because although I feel Mike is speaking direct from his heart and soul here.There`s also something of the "Yeah have some of this frigger" over-riding it a lot of the time as well.If Far Above The Clouds was put to a movie sequence for instance.It would have to be a kind of James Bond going over cliff face/parachute opens moment to me.I can just see that chute opening up now in fact,with the TB logo emblazened accross the top of it.Billowing wildly in the mountain wind as our intrepid hero still manages to spark up a crafty roll-up on his triumphant descent. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: May 12 2008, 12:18 What a fantastic image.That is priceless!Thanks for making me laugh after a lousy day at work -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 12 2008, 14:12 Quote (Dirk Star @ May 12 2008, 17:05) Anyway that said I do agree with Alan that TB3 isn`t really a  an album to be taken too seriously.It`s entertainment in it`s purest form in a way,because although I feel Mike is speaking direct from his heart and soul here.There`s also something of the "Yeah have some of this frigger" over-riding it a lot of the time as well. Although I do agree with almost everything else you say in your post, Mick, I do take the album seriously. I think it's a bit scary, actually - in the same way that Amarok is scary. Yes, it can make you laugh, but the laughter isn't quite healthy laughter. We can march with him up the mountain banging our bells and shouting be damned to the world (because what the hell do they know?), but we're aware at the same time that it could very easily tip over into tears. Quote My over-riding feeling when the album finally fades into the mists is nearly always.."and now what?" Yes, exactly. It's an uneasy peace that he leaves us with. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 12 2008, 15:10 I have to say Tubular Bells III must be the most straight-faced album in my entire collection. I think even dark stuff like Can has a tinge of obliquity in it, while Tubular Bells III truly shoves its "autobiography" in your face (and notice, I speak as someone who did that before and is very ashamed of it). Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but it ain't necessarily a good thing either. I just don't say it's the most serious music ever because now there's Simple Plan... And yes, I passionately hate Tubular Bells III but I think it's much better than Simple Plan. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: May 12 2008, 22:32 Quote (The Caveman @ May 12 2008, 08:13) The visual image it conjurs to me is a cloud laden white staircase going up (cetainly never down)untill it rises above the clouds to a great white cloudscape and brilliant sunset. I'm really surprised by this, simply because the sequence of bell notes goes DOWN, persistently. And by the old content reflect forms theory, the content should therefore be about "going down" as well. Tayniee seems to be the only one who comes close to agreeing with me about this.... I agree that there's a euphoria about it, but it's the sort of euphoria you might get by listening to Berlioz's "The Damnation of Faust", or watching a particularly effective horror film. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: May 12 2008, 23:13 I agree.  It's a euphoria that might accompany the terror of a ripping roller-coaster ride, or a good, scary movie. A manic type of inner frenzy, perhaps.  But, again, those birds at the end...  Maybe a Hitchcock reference-though that's really stretching it. Back to top

Jesse Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: Aug. 2007 Posted: May 13 2008, 01:09 but serpent dream is magnificent. if only i could play that Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 13 2008, 02:10 Quote (nightspore @ May 13 2008, 03:32) I agree that there's a euphoria about it, but it's the sort of euphoria you might get by listening to Berlioz's "The Damnation of Faust", or watching a particularly effective horror film. I'm not sure there's as much difference between our responses as you think. We're all picking up something we're uneasy about - a dark jagged edge behind the apparent triumphant conclusion that's unsettling. The confidence is brittle. There's something of the manic about it. I'd suggest the differences in our responses are more differences of emphasis rather than character - probably to do with how much that 'touch of bipolar' disturbs us, individually. I wouldn't myself see it terms of horror films, but I can see how it might have that effect. As I said earlier, I'm reminded a lot, in this discussion, of the feeling of near-hysteria that underlies Amarok - which I find scary in the same way, but much more so. Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: May 13 2008, 05:16 [quote=Alan D,May 12 2008, 19:12][/quote] Quote Although I do agree with almost everything else you say in your post, Mick, I do take the album seriously. Yeah sorry Alan I actually mis-read your post somewhat there when you were talking about the whole pastische thing as regards Man In The Rain.I don`t know though I just feel that Mike was being very tongue in cheek throughout this album.Like he made the whole thing with a great big slightly manic grin on his face.Maybe it felt like some kind of therapy for him at the time I don`t know.I suppose thinking about it logically I can see why some people are maybe disturbed by that a little bit.I`ve even admitted that myself earlier I suppose. That said though I don`t think I`m really wording it right when I said it`s not an album to be taken too seriously.I think that`s partly because it`s an album I`ve always really enjoyed from the first time I heard it.Without really having to put any kind of effort into listening to if you see what I mean?The Millenium Bell on the other hand I probablly still take way too seriously.2,000 years of history in fifty odd minutes or whatever it is?..My problem is I`ve never really got over that whole aspect to fully appreciate it unfortunatly.And the strange thing is when I first bought TMB I played it over and over for weeks trying to get over it.I know it sounds like I`m missing the point there,but unfortunatly that`s still the way I feel about it. Anyway something else I`d like to mention is plain and simple Rock Ethos if you like.That in actual fact some of what maybe disturbs us or makes us feel ill at ease a little.Is simply there for the sheer thrill and excitement of it all.The whole roller-coaster ride that Bassman mentions there.Power and Volume and maybe pent up aggression I suppose.You can look at say the way that buzz saw guitar comes out of nowhere during the "Status Quo" type section of Amarok.Or why the hell those guitars have to be that loud during Alison Gross by Steeleye Span?   Of course you can still logically sit and reason why all that stuff should be there at all.Be it frustration at a different generation or the establishment.Or be it frustration with yourself as we`ve both kind of alluded to here I guess.You know I can remember reading you thought that Mike was having a little bit of a tantrum during some sections of Amarok.And I can actually see where you were coming from there no question.But for me that`s what I kind of love about rock music because you get to see everything.You can get carried away sometimes both artist and listener by the sheer release and excitement of it all.Maybe it isn`t entirely healthy that`s a valid accusation at the whole state of the human race I guess.Why the hell do some people like to go paintballing for instance?At the end of the day people are always going to react to all that stuff differently due to whatever the hell it is that makes that person who he/she is. Quote We can march with him up the mountain banging our bells and shouting be damned to the world (because what the hell do they know?), but we're aware at the same time that it could very easily tip over into tears. That`s exactly it in a nutshell for me absolutely spot on.My feeling is though that Mike is probably fully aware of that anyway and just went for it.I suppose if that is the case you could maybe question his whole integrity for doing that?But imho I think it was nothing more than live process of impulsive thought.The whole irresistable force was probably out in the open before he could stop himself. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: May 13 2008, 06:03 Quote (Dirk Star @ May 13 2008, 10:16) Anyway something else I`d like to mention is plain and simple Rock Ethos if you like. That's a good point to raise. There's something about the essence of Rock music that can come across as a kind of inflated idea of itself. The often aggressive body-language of an electric guitar player doesn't bear a great deal of inspection, when you think about it, but he often looks as if he's doing something defiant and huge when, as Clapton said, he really is only a guitar-player. So I agree - Mike's defiant, over-the-top ascent above the clouds may be only a different manifestation of something that's built into rock music anyway. Back to top

trcanberra Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: May 13 2008, 07:48 Umm - there is a favourite track poll (otherwise I would, of course, have created one     ). Back to top

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