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The_Dude Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: Feb. 21 2000, 18:09 What exactly is a Midi Guitar? Back to top

Blue Dolphin Group: Members Posts: 1232 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Feb. 25 2000, 17:35 Hi! Well, what I read about this Midi guitar of Mo in the interviews, is that his guitar has a special element in it, which can play all sorts of sounds which are sampled from the computer. I also read that he is one of Britain's artist who has one. There aren't many who have them... That's all I can tell. Blue Dolphin -------------- -The mark of a good musician is to play one note and mean it- Mike Oldfield - 1980 Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Feb. 27 2000, 20:06 In a bit more detail... MIDI stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface, a type of connection used to link up synthesizers and other electronic music devices. (Sorry to be patronising if you knew that already). I'll include some model numbers and things here... The guitar in question is probably the orange sunburst guitar on the bottom right of the 'Guitars' picture. The guitar is a PRS (Paul Reed Smith - made in USA), which has had a Roland synth pickup (probably a GK2A) fitted to it (these pickups can just be stuck onto the guitar, but Mike's has been installed permanently inside the guitar, done by Chandler Guitars in Kew, England if I remember rightly). These pickups are fairly readily available. Using one of these pickups, the guitar can be connected to one of many devices Roland offer (as well as a few other compatible systems such as ones from Yamaha), which are included the VG8 virtual guitar system, which allows a guitar fitted with one of these pickups to create the sound of almost any guitar playing through any amplifier. Mike uses this for the opening 'acoustic' sound on Man in the rain, as well as loads of others (you can see him using the guitar on the TB3 premiere video). The same pickup system also lets Mike connect (via a guitar to MIDI convertor) to any MIDI device, letting him play synthesizers and samplers from his guitar. Mike did say in an interview that there aren't many of these devices in Britain. He may have something I don't know about, but the Roland system is fairly freely available, although not terrible cheap, so there aren't huge numbers of them. He may have got hold of a prototype or something which hasn't been properly released, though, in which case there won't be many in the UK... There are also other MIDI guitar systems, but the Roland is the most popular and at least forms the basis for what Mike uses. Back to top

The Feeling Project Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: Feb. 2001 Posted: Mar. 21 2001, 14:12 Nice example of MIDI: Take a recording of a cow going Mooo MOooo and do some stuff then when you play your midi guitar keyboard flute etc.. You can play the high e and the cow will moooo in high e. All midi is a sampled sound I think or a nice computer algorithim. But to make a simple explanation of midi that is the best I can do. Record a sound and then play it in many octaves useing a midi instrument. Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Mar. 21 2001, 16:15 Hi Korgscrew, please don't feel offended if I add some words. I know nothing about models, brands and so on. I just want to point out some things. It's like saying the same things you said, only with other words. MIDI data basically tell what note to play, and when. The problem is to convert the player's actions to MIDI data. This is easy for some instruments, like keyboards and drums. It is very difficult for other instruments, like guitars. Why is it difficult for guitars? 1) When a string is picked, you must know where it's fretted, how it's tuned, how much it is bent, and so on. That would take a lot of sensors to be built into the guitar. 2) To avoid this, you can take the audio signal and try to convert it to MIDI. Now you have a new problem: several notes may sound at the same time, interfering with each other. The software must separate them again. There is a mathematical algorithm (Fourier Transform) which can do this. 3) Fourier Transform is limited by what is called "Heisenberg's law of indetermination" (or so). In short, it means you can't get the exact pitch AND the exact timing of a note. 4) Distorted guitars create lots of harmonics which will conceal the basic frequency you're looking for. 5) Guitars create lots of 'noises' (= sounds without definite pitch) that can't be converted to MIDI at all. Excuse me for being so geeky . To me, it's a miracle that there are MIDI guitars that work. -Carsten- -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Mar. 21 2001, 16:41 No problem with you adding some words at all Carsten - I don't yet have a monopoly on TubularTech postings or anything Just to add to what you said...Roland I believe get round these problems by using a separate little pickup for each string. I don't know exactly how it works, but I guess that it must somehow be working out the pitch of notes played...perhaps there's a website somewhere or other about that sort of thing, if anyone fancies looking for it (and reading it)... Good example there TFP...but we can take MIDI further if we want. That note data that you use to play your cow sound can be recorded into a sequencer. Then you can edit it so the cow plays on a high c instead of e (although, the cow would have to be hitting a particular note to start with, and the sampler would need to have been told what note that was), or something. You could send the data to a synthesiser so you had a string sound layered with your sampled cow. We could then send that data to a midi lighting controller, which could turn on a light along with the cow sound. There are all sorts of other controllers other than just notes as well, and they can be used to do all sorts of things. You even get midi time code and midi machine control, which can prove quite handy for things like synchronising digital multitrackers to computers (or to each other). I'll stop now... Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Mar. 21 2001, 17:16 Yes Korgscrew, that's a part of the solution - picking up each string separately. It can be done by using 6 coils instead of one (as in normal pickups). But still, Fourier Transform is needed for analysis... -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

The Feeling Project Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: Feb. 2001 Posted: Mar. 22 2001, 00:34 They do make a MIDI guitar actually. Which is very different than a pickup on a real guitar. It is not the same as playing a real guitar but the effect is still the same and you acheive almost a 100% accuracy. Take a look at model "Ztar Z6-S" at http://catalog.com/starrlab/ I might like to get one of these someday. The same territory you are used to playing on but a whole new field of sounds. I would not really be happy with a midi pickup IO think. The midi guitar would be sweet though if I had a nice MIDI voice synthesizer. Lots of $$$$$. Tell me what you think of the MIDI guitar at that link. Thanks - Tfp Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: June 27 2002, 06:33 They are the freakiest 'guitars' I have ever seen. They look like a Sci-Fi prop. They rock! They have pads for drumming stuff, keys and assorted other electronic stuff. I seriously NEED one of they, just for the cool factor, and you can probably play the whole of Amarok on them! I'm not fully sure about how they work though. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 27 2002, 16:59 Reminds me a bit of a Synthaxe...I wonder if Allan Holdsworth has one in his collection yet... Back to top

mdenari Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: June 27 2002, 17:41 Just to add a little bit of info. If you carefully read the sleeve of Guitars, you'll read that every note on every track was played through a guitar. This translates into Mike using his GK2-a and his VG-88, using the internal sounds of the VG and also to trigger his other synths Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Aug. 04 2002, 03:13 Yeah, I think I read somewhere that the drums etc. were just synth sounds triggered by the guitar. Sort of cheating really, but it's still amazing that it works at all -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Aug. 04 2002, 11:38 Some of the drum sounds were made using samples of a bass guitar. I think it's mostly the background 'pad' sounds (and some of the other drum sounds) that have had little to do with guitars (apart from being triggered from one). Some of the synth type sounds have come from the VG-8. Because of the way it generates them from the waveform produced by the guitar string, I suppose it can be said that the sounds from there are actually unique to guitars (even if they sound like a synth). That's not the case with other synth sounds, though (saxophone anyone? )... The other piece of equipment used was the Roland GI-10 guitar - MIDI convertor, to interface with the synthesisers, samplers, etc. Back to top

BOOsTER Group: Musicians Posts: 1024 Joined: Jan. 2003 Posted: Feb. 16 2003, 10:32 Quote (CarstenKuss @ Mar. 21 2001, 17:16) Yes Korgscrew, that's a part of the solution - picking up each string separately. It can be done by using 6 coils instead of one (as in normal pickups). But still, Fourier Transform is needed for analysis... I think that if you fret a string and then pick it it has a frequency of vibrating when you fret the string on some other place the freq of vibrating changes that's the basic of midi guitar I think...you have one sensor that detects the freq. of vibration on each string and they interpret it as a midi note then it goes through anything compatible and makes sound -------------- http://www.djbooster.net Back to top

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