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The Man who is He.. Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 21 2005, 19:26 Hi all, It may sound like a crazy question, but please can somebody define (or attempt to) progressive rock for me please..? Every time I think I know I find out that Maybe I do not. I remember Mike once saying. "The more you learn the more you find out you never knew." Back to top

The Man who is He.. Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 21 2005, 19:38 Quote (The Man who is He.. @ Oct. 21 2005, 19:26) "The more you learn the more you find out you never knew." Sorry, that should be, "the more you learn the more realise what you nver knew" And sorry for making the post twice, Was fighting with the cat. Back to top

captain cavern Group: Members Posts: 267 Joined: Oct. 2003 Posted: Oct. 21 2005, 19:51 http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp Back to top

The Man who is He.. Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 21 2005, 19:59 THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Back to top

Tati The Sentinel Group: Members Posts: 3360 Joined: Feb. 2002 Posted: Oct. 21 2005, 20:31 The best thing is to discover...Oldfield Progressive,a sub-genre of Prog Rock   -------------- "But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014 "I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011 Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 01:35 Gabriel era Genesis were probably the archetypal English prog rock band insofar as there were some very English qualities to their music - pastoral, humorous and whimsical. Post 'Wind and the Wuthering' (the second album with Collins taking lead vox), very little Genesis output was what I consider to be progressive either in genre or in the true sense of the word. Fair enough, one could argue that Burning Rope (And Then There Were Three), Duke's Travels (Duke) and Abacab and Dodo (Abacab) have their prog moments, but clearly, to those in the know, they were more an exercise in trying to maintain the interest of the old faithful whilst the majority of new output was gradually entertaining a wider, younger audience more inclined to buy singles than albums. Ally this to Collins' solo success and it's not hard to understand why anything over 5 minutes long on a Genesis album after 1981 turned out to be just a long song as opposed to a prog rock epic. King Crimson's 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is widely regarded as being the first prog rock album, although some Beatle's fetishists will try and persuade all and sundry that Sgt. Pepper was the first, based solely on the fact that it's a concept album. Personally, I think that theory is a load of biased bull$h!te and I concur with the Crimson theory as it appears to mark a shift from 60s psychedelia to (what was to become) 70s prog. The Crims' use of the mellotron was far more impressive than any of the other groups involved in the first wave of Prog Rock and showed them as the true innovators that they continue to be to this day. Bear in mind too that the Crims are one of the few prog rock groups to 'progress' without a recognised keyboard wizard. Don't forget Yes - pretentious, overblown, complex virtuosity and utterly brilliant; Emerson, Lake and Palmer - classically diverse and futuristic; Pink Floyd - symphonic, melodic and socialist anthems - one begins to realise that the true worth and value of progressive rock remains unsung. All of these BIG FIVE were completely different in style, composition, format and execution, yet the 'progressive' genre does each of them a disservice as it groups all of them together under one umbrella thus diluting the readers' attention; in essence, each of them are worthy of a genre of their own. -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

mink stoles Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 10:02 For a band/artist to be progressive rock I would say it/they would have to meet the following criteria: 1. you should be as pretentious as possible 2. You will need several capes, wizard costumes and a giant wall for your live shows (see Yes/Rick Wakeman/Pink Floyd) 3. Your lyrics should relate (often, but not always) to medieval England (broadswords are a good topic - see Jethro Tull) 4. You need some drugs (dope or LSD will do) 5. Your album should have a concept (if possible) and each song should relate to each other 6. You will need a lot of keyboards (see Yes or ELP) 7. You will be hated by every other type of musician for being pretentious 8. Your songs should be at least 10 minutes in length 9. You need long hair to swish about in a moody way 10. You should have very long guitar solos and last but not least 10+1. you will need very tight trousers to show off your large sausage -------------- So if you you feel a little glum, To Hergest Ridge you should come. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 12:36 The good qualities of a Prog band come in the way they break those criteria. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 17:59 Quote (mink stoles @ Oct. 22 2005, 15:02) For a band/artist to be progressive rock I would say it/they would have to meet the following criteria: 3. Your lyrics should relate (often, but not always) to medieval England (broadswords are a good topic - see Jethro Tull) 4. You need some drugs (dope or LSD will do) 9. You need long hair to swish about in a moody way and last but not least 10+1. you will need very tight trousers to show off your large sausage Very funny Mr Stoles 11) Lyrics relating to Hobbits, Gollum, Mordor, well anything to do with Lord Of The Rings     . Mr Robert Plant, Prog Rock Sex God      Behave yourself Moonchildhippy. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 18:55 Quote (T4 @ Oct. 22 2005, 06:35) King Crimson's 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is widely regarded as being the first prog rock album, although some Beatle's fetishists will try and persuade all and sundry that Sgt. Pepper was the first, based solely on the fact that it's a concept album. Personally, I think that theory is a load of biased bull$h!te and I concur with the Crimson theory as it appears to mark a shift from 60s psychedelia to (what was to become) 70s prog. The Crims' use of the mellotron was far more impressive than any of the other groups involved in the first wave of Prog Rock and showed them as the true innovators that they continue to be to this day. Bear in mind too that the Crims are one of the few prog rock groups to 'progress' without a recognised keyboard wizard. I agree with T4 that "In The Court OF The Crimson King" is the first true prog rock album. I think ITCOTCK is One of the greatest albums ever, the only thing is I've never really got into KC other than this album.  I have "The Young Persons Guide". Also bought CDs of "Lizard" and "Larks Tounges In Aspic", but I can't seem to get into them, they don't move me in the same way as ITCOTCK does. When I bought Lizard it was a case of "What on earth do I have here?????" .   I don't understand how I can like ITCOTKC so much and not like other albums by The Crims to a similar degree. Saying that though, I found a relative of mine in Durham area, who said that Tubular Bells was the only??? decent album Mike ever  made   .  I strongly disagree with him on that one,  There's the first four, plus TSODE, TB2 and 3, plus Voyager, L&S and Guitars I would say are in my top ten albums by Mike . Perhaps I need to give listening to The Crims another go, I don't know what the most accessible albums are. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 20:28 King Crimson? Well, I agree that 'Lizard' isn't a very smooth introduction - Fripp himself detests the album. 'Larks' Tongues In Aspic' are, by far, my favourite Crimson album, but if isn't getting into your brain... well, GET 'RED'. NOW: hard rocking, brutal, tricky, unexplainably beautiful. It touches the jazzy aspects of 'Larks' Tongues In Aspic', but doesn't get too much into it. There's none of the grandiose beauty of 'In The Court Of The Crimson King', though - only some of the greatest songs they ever composed, and moments of unadultered gorgeousness, i.e. 'Fallen Angel', 'Starless' and the entirety of the title track. As for the other bands... I'm sorry, but I can't consider Pink Floyd as "Prog Rock". Their influences and goals never matched the ones of Prog as a whole: amongst jazz, classical, mediaeval, I suppose Floyd only took a bit after Jazz. Besides, their music was slow, fluid and spacey, and not tight and restless as most of Prog Rock is. If you're going to consider them as Prog, you're pushing the limits of "Prog" a bit too far, and you're going to have to include many other bands and artists as well - and thus, "Prog" loses its meaning. Talk about Mellotron - indeed, King Crimson truly did an amazing work with the instrument in their debut, but Mike Pinder's Mellotron work on the Moody Blues records from that time was very impressive, too. 'To Our Children's Children's Children' is one of the best Mellotron records ever, in my opinion. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 20:46 Well, if Dogs or Shine On aren't prog, I don't know what they are. OK, a different feel of prog to Yes, but isn't prog about doing things differently, rather than sticking to a narrowly defined genre. It is progressive rock. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Oct. 23 2005, 03:06 I agree with you Alex and I'll add the eponymous side long track from Atom Heart Mother (love it or hate it) and Echoes to the list too. -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

dreamweaver Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: Feb. 2004 Posted: Oct. 28 2005, 14:34 Quote (mink stoles @ Oct. 22 2005, 15:02) For a band/artist to be progressive rock I would say it/they would have to meet the following criteria: you should be as pretentious as possible Your lyrics should relate (often, but not always) to medieval England (broadswords are a good topic - see Jethro Tull) Your album should have a concept (if possible) and each song should relate to each other You will be hated by every other type of musician for being pretentious Your songs should be at least 10 minutes in length You need long hair to swish about in a moody way You should have very long guitar solos and last but not least 10+1. you will need very tight trousers to show off your large sausage I think Blackmore's Night fit the bill rather nicely here !!!!   Godspeed You! Black Emperor fit a couple of the criteria too, just listen to F# A# Oo -------------- I sent my Soul through the Invisible, Some letter of that After-Life to spell: And by and by my Soul return'd to me, And answer'd "I Myself am Heaven and Hell:" Back to top

Tati The Sentinel Group: Members Posts: 3360 Joined: Feb. 2002 Posted: Oct. 28 2005, 18:08 According to Gilbraltar Encylopedia of Progressive Rock: Quote Oldfield Progressive I don't know what else to call this type of music since it was so innovative. Mike Oldfield, an incredible musician and composer created a form of music that combined everything form hard rock to Celtic music and did it with such style and verve that it actually became popular. Usually written like Symphonic prog and was also quite bombastic yet more sensible. Mike Oldfield rules!!! -------------- "But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014 "I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011 Back to top

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