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hal Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: Sep. 2002 Posted: Sep. 21 2002, 11:09 I recently got hold of a copy of tres lunas and I have to say was dissapointed with what I heard.  I know that as an album it is the accompaniment to a computer game yet unfortunately this is exactly as the album sounds, music for a computer game.  Worryingly though I half expected it.  Im pained to say I found the music instantly forgettable with the recycling of old riffs and ideas.  I know the album has done well in europe etc but I really feel that Oldfields last couple of releases have undone some good work in reinstating Oldfield into the record buying public as a credible modern artist. Lets be honest apart from us die hards the general public only tend to buy the Tubular Bells series but albums such as songs from a distant earth you could tell were polished well thought out complete works that did well beyond the fan base.  You cant argue that Oldfield is not a commercial artist as all his albums since Amorok have been very polished commercially aware works, personally I prefer Oldfields earlier works ommadawn and the original bells are completely different pieces to anything after 1990 yet this in itself is not a bad thing. My main point is that I feel I can see Mike sliping as an artist with commercial weight.  If hes going to produce more commercial albums theyve got to be "real" just listen to the quality of sound on tb3 compared to that of any of the following albums.  Because its a bells release its so much richer and complete and sounds as a whole because its going to be very popular, it has had time invested.  The synth work on tres lunas is very cheap indeed.  The art work for the 'millenium bell' (terrible title) was cheap and an after thought Tres Lunas is music for a shopping mall, this is not the artist that inspired me to pick up the guitar.   Tubular Bells 2 is a classic example of a commercial piece of music but this is not to say it is with out art.  Even though it is easier on the ear than all of oldfields albums before (instantly retrieving him from the wilderness) it was rich and textured and very complex in styles, (time invested).  since sfade I just dont thing hes had the record company support and the personal interest to invest as much time, and with the recent releases we see that trend developing further. I just get this feeling that this is going to happen again and Ill go the cd shop and by his next release and the art work will look cheap, get it home stick it on and the music will sound limp and with out any real impatuse and TIME INVESTED!! To me it just looks like hes not selling as many records as he used to and because of this the record company has not invested as much time in his promotion and in return the music does not need to be as rich as it used to be. He is a great musician  I want to see him produce a new work a complete whole something new with great moments and a rich depth of sound that will go beyond the fan base.  There has never been a better time for an artist like Oldfield to claim ground the "chill out" market is the biggest growth market in music today and Oldfield practically invented it.  If he invested time in a great album he could produce an album which could be a cross over. Tres Lunas is not "chill out" music its music to wash the car to.  Musicians can come back look at Santana. Back to top

Horse Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 21 2002, 16:26 What can I say? I agree 100 %! Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 23 2002, 04:32 Unfortunately, I think you are pretty much right. Since 1996 I have stongly felt that Mikes's album could have been stronger than they actually were. There has been high points on each album, and I do not doubt Mike's ability to compose (despite the quite many really poor tracks (about 5-8 tracks on each of the last 6 albums)). I have a feeling that Mike isn't that serious about making music as he used to be. He seems to be pleased as soon as he has some good tracks (2-4 of them) plus 5-10 fillers. I have been critizised for being one of those 'back to the 70's' negative guys, but this is not what it is about. I simply feel that Mike tries to get away with too cheap material nowadays, and it really puzzles me why ... Can it be that Mike lost his faith in 'quality music' after 2 decades of constant attacs from the music press + the lack of interest in his music from the record company's side? You are very much right about the synth work on TL. IMHO, It is all too poor, with the stand-out exception being track 3. I also feel that the drum loops are extremely cheap, and that the guitar playing could have been more inspired and elaborate; sometimes I feel that Mike just takes the guitar and plays something and then just keeps it as long as it wasn't wrong. Not always with a good result. I'm obviously not talking about all his playing, but I get this impression a little bit too frequent nowadays ... What is your opinion?   Is Mike searching too hard after a 'concept'? Or an thought audience? I suspect this might be the case. I wish he that wouldn't  care at all about anything else than the music. Some fans claim he doesn't care, but I don't believe that. Mike, don't care at all about who is going to buy the record, or if it is going to sell at all. Just write ambitious music, and let it mature before releasing it. (This is one problem with his later albums, they have been released too fast; I am not talking about absolute time scale here I'm saying that the later albums were not developed enough nor were they produced with the care Mike used to show). By the way, check the similar discussions under 'Guidelines for good MO music'. It is sad that I have to write these negative lines after all those magnificent moments Mike's music has given me. There is no other artist comparable with him, IMHO. Back to top

hal Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: Sep. 2002 Posted: Oct. 02 2002, 18:28 A slight change of subject here, well a similar theme, In regards to TB3, have to say, dosent have anywhere near the longevity as the other two instalments.  I dont go back to it anymore as its just not as rich, good though it is.  In respect to this more synthy stuff, I think he does it really well but he hasnt for a long time apart from... an early demo for the main theme on TB3 it appeared on an Oldfiled best of about a year before it was released and it sounded great.  It had a different indian male vocal and different appegiator runs and sounded IMHO better than the final version, make that much better. Back to top

lazeeladuk Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: June 2002 Posted: Oct. 03 2002, 10:12 some of the things you have said are very true  hal and The Man but there are still some good tracks on Tr3s Lunas, not all of them are that weak. Maybe MIke is just paying a few bills with this one and we'll all have to wait untill he wants a new car or a holiday before we get an album the likes of Ommadawn or TSODE.( this is just a joke        )On the whole though TL is not one of Mikes best albums but it's certainly not the worst by a long way.I hope Mike go's back to basics soon and dumps all the techno style stuff, the elctronic sounding music is ok when it's play like on TSODE but TL could just be another chillout album from somewhere in the med what i'm trying say is that i and more than likely every other fan hopes that Mike doesn't go the same way as JMJ (jean michel jarre) he did an exellent album,Revolutions and then thought he'd become some top DJ and everything after sounded like a dance album....a real shame cos he used to be good.anyway Mike should stick to the traditional stuff that he's best loved for Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Oct. 03 2002, 19:12 The annoying thing for me is that TL could concievably represent the last piece of original MO music for a good long while. We all know the new TB is going to be next followed by a likely tour which could well take him into 2004. And after that god knows how long it will take him to feel in the mood to write more music, so concievably we may not see a new album of original music until 2005 or even later. The best possible outcome of the new TB is that it is a global success and the record company put pressure on Mike to cash in on it and produce a new album quickly in order to stay fresh in peoples minds. This could also be an opertunity for Mike to go back to basics and produce another good long involved developing work. Who gives a fuck who its aimed at, just do it. Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Oct. 04 2002, 06:22 Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 03 2002, 19:12) Who gives a fuck who its aimed at, just do it. Exactly my opinion! Don't care about it! Back to top

Thea Cochrane Group: Musicians Posts: 445 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Oct. 04 2002, 22:39 Quote (TheMan @ Oct. 04 2002, 11:22) Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 03 2002, 19:12) Who gives a fuck who its aimed at, just do it. Exactly my opinion! Don't care about it! [QUOTE] To be frank, the record companies care. The music industry now is simply not the same as it was in the 1970s - if a major record company is going to put out an album at all it wants it to be commercially viable. If they can't work out a demograph of who will buy this album (bearing in mind that synchronisation rights in film and television are supposed to be handled by a music publisher - maybe Mike needs a new publisher) then they simply won't want to put it out or will only put forward a half hearted marketting campaign if they do put it out. It would have been very easy for Tubular Bells, Mike and possibly even the Virgin empire to have vanished without trace if Tubular Bells had not taken off. Virgin at the time were happy to take the risk in a spirit of enterprise that is now sadly lacking in the music industry today. If you want for Mike to make something where he isn't worrying about who will buy it - assuming that he isn't doing that already - then a possibility could be to set up Oldfield Music as a full independent record company where new albums are released directly via mail order or the Internet and/or licensed to a major record company for promotion and distribution to stores. In return for this the record company take a cut, but provide some advertising budget possibly including video. Similar systems have worked well for Peter Gabriel, Marillion and Judie Tzuke, amongst others; these are all artists who, like Mike, have a fairly big fan-base already. With near total control, maybe Mike could arrange for better b-sides/ remixes on the singles. Back to top

hal Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: Sep. 2002 Posted: Oct. 06 2002, 21:21 I agree with you about releasing albums purely to the fan base via internet, mail order etc, and felt that his last album was perfect for this form of sale especially as it appears to be an after thought to a computer game.  In regards to Gabriel I think its worked well and as has been the case with the release of UP. This is a major studio album released with strong promotion and radio play and its a "real" record and will be a solid and important work in his discography as apposed to a catologue of five or six strong albums and six or seven knock ups.  Prince also does a similar thing were I think members pay an annual subscription and receive albums via mail order or something like this.  Im not sure if Oldfield is prolific enough to warrant this type of set up but certainly I think it would work well financially and artistically for major studio albums to receive the promotional support of the record company and lesser works to go through fan sites.  Then when he did produce a "real" record it would become more of an event, unlike what weve seen in the last four years where theres been one real album and three very half hearted efforts.  Oh great point about needing a better publicist, he makes instrumental music yet you never hear it anywhere? Back to top

Wanderer Group: Members Posts: 119 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Oct. 10 2002, 05:04 I've said this before and I'll say it again. "Tres Lunas" is a soundtrack album. A SOUNDTRACK ALBUM. What irritates me when I see criticism of "Tres Lunas" is that wether people are giving it a good review or a bad review no one is talking about how well the music fits in with the images. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW WELL THE MUSIC FITS WITH THE IMAGERY. The whole point of a soundtrack is that the music is there to prop up the visuals, not the other way around. I too was quite disappointed with "Tres Lunas" (as well as "The Killing Fields" for that matter) until I actually played the game. Now I find it hard to imagine the game with a different soundtrack. As for comments on the music sounding cheap, that is not uncommon with computer game soundtracks and from what I've heard Mike had to spend a lot of money just to get all the graphic design together... Mike Oldfield is not a commercial artist either in my opinion. Again, if he was interested in selling bucketloads of records he would do an all song album like "Earth Moving" and record it with people who are established stars in their own right so it gets some airplay. That is what Santana did with "Supernatural" - and that is what I call selling out to commercial considerations. One measly song amidst a plethora of instrumentals, and sung by a non-star, is not a recipe for commercial success and I think Mike knows that better than anyone. When I hear people go on about how "commercial" Mike has become I can't help but think "You have GOT to be kidding me". Have you guys even seen whats in the charts at the moment? Say whatever else you will about him, say how his music has declined....whatever.... I concede you have some valid point about record companies and production techniques.... but the attitude of the suits is nothing new and I never thought the technical side of music production was as important as good melody...and that is a matter of personal taste. But Mike has always has been unpredictable, a maverick,  and that is what I think is one of his major strengths. As a fan, you never know which way he's gonna jump. It's why I've followed him so long... Yeah, "Tres Lunas" isn't a great Mike Oldfield album, but as a SOUNDTRACK I think it's a reasonable job. Especially if you've suffered through the "Legend Of Zelda" soundtracks... Oh, and the "Tubular Bells" redux is a cop out. I'd rather have a new album......   still, "Tubular Bells" is the only album of his I don't actually own at present so if the new recording turns out to be better (very much doubt it) I might splash out on that one. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Oct. 10 2002, 19:16 I understand your point and do agree to a certain extent. I think its interesting to note how largely forgotten the game has become when people crticise the whole of the TL project, people seem to ignore what it was originaly all about. However the album was designed presumably to stand up on its own merits and here I think its fair to point a critical finger. TL I think suffers from an identity crisis it doesn't really know whether its a chill out album, an ambient album or a soundtrack album. Its all of these things and none of them. I suppose at the end of the day what it is is most definately a Mike Oldfield album and thats a genre all to itself in my opinion, the quicker the record company realise this the better for everyone. I do feel very, very strongly that there has been a huge attempt by Mike to court commercial success in recent years by deliberately trying to sound in vogue and contemporary. And why not, both him and the record company obviously want to sell records and be popular. TB3, The Mellenium Bell and TL all had their eye firmly set on appealing to a certain market. So yes I would say Mike is definately trying to sound more commercial these days ( I'm not kidding).  Is it paying off? I would argue most definately not. Back to top

Tellur Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: Oct. 2002 Posted: Oct. 14 2002, 08:48 To make things clear, I'm 16 years old, so to some of you I might be the 'commercial market'. I started listening to MO after hearing 'Voyager' - I know I should've started with 'TB' but hey, what did I know those days? His music kind of rubbed off on me, so I started purchasing his other works - 'Tubular Bells', 'TBII' and 'TBIII' - all of these the very same day. And I came to this funny conclusion - I was raised in a different environment than most of you people, so new kinds of music (techno) are easier accepted by me than by you (not that I like them). But what I did is I listened to the three CDs and after hearing each one I starded listening to the first 'TB' for the second time - not becouse it was chronologically first, but because it was THE BEST... When I first heard 'Tres Lunas' on the radio I was like 'Whoa! This is Mike Oldfield, all right!" But after I bought it I listened to it once... then twice... and then I put it on the shelf and started listening to, in my opinion, the very best of MOs works - 'TB', 'TSoDE', 'Ommadawn' (my favourite). My conclusion is: 'Tres Lunas' may be commercial, but it's not commercial enough to stuff it in the same bag along with Britney Spears or some other Christina Augilliera (is this how you write it? Who cares...) Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Oct. 15 2002, 06:12 Quote (TOBY @ Oct. 10 2002, 19:16) I do feel very, very strongly that there has been a huge attempt by Mike to court commercial success in recent years by deliberately trying to sound in vogue and contemporary. [...] TB3, The Mellenium Bell and TL all had their eye firmly set on appealing to a certain market. Yes TOBY this is correct. Some 'softer' fans seem to think that instrumental work automatically cannot be commersial music. Only pop-songs are in their eyes commersial. My guess is that these fans are rather young, often lacking enough experience of what instrumental music can be like. There is a market for all kind of music and within the genre 'Instrumental music' you find anything from very 'easy-on-the-ears' music to introvert experiments like Keith Jarretts 'Spheres' (to mention one of my favourites). Mike has obviously tried to make his recent albums more 'balanced' (less details, complexity, more obvious melodies beeing repeated over simple chords). Guitars is an exception (although I don't like it very much), but MB, TL, V, TB3 speculate in thought audiences, the music does not sound real enough to me. I would like to see Mike COMPLETELY ignore all kind of commersial aspect, and just write music. If it sells not more than 100 ex, well, than the music probably has some qualities. Incantations and Amarok were commercial disasters! Two of his absolute best albums ever. I also feel that Mikes sounds to 'contemporary'. He should instead try to sound 'timeless', he should find a unique sound. INVENT a new sound instead of trying to adjust to how selling instrumental music sounds like today! Back to top

Tellur Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: Oct. 2002 Posted: Oct. 15 2002, 06:50 Hey, TheMan, young fans do have a right to exist - someone has to buy all of Mike's commercial albums. The truth is, we (young fans) really lack experience as to what good music can be like, for nobody instructed us, nobody showed us good (non-commercial) albums. The market is commercial, the market promotes commercial music, the market sells commercial music. That's the overall rule... I wasn't even born when TB appeared, so, except for the fact that if I  was born before TB I migh've not heard of it, it wasn't phisically possible for me to get to know Oldfield before, lets say, I reached the age of 12. We have to find out everything on our own... But after I get to know good albums, I will be able to distinguish the good ones from the other, 'commercial' ones. I'm still learning, but practice makes perfect. The fact that I accept Tres Lunas doesn't mean that IMHO it reaches the high standards of Ommadawn or TB. It just means that becouse of TL (or TBIII) I don't get offended to Mike in some way, I still keep waiting for Ommadawn II   Mike is a human like all of us, Mike needs the promotion, the money, for god's sake. Most artists are remembered for their good albums, not for the bad ones. In order for an artist to make a great album he needs to release three or four 'worse' ones (not meaning bad, only not so great). Tres Lunas is not a great album, as you say, but it's not also a bad album. We can't except Mike to release a genuine album year after, year after year... Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Oct. 16 2002, 06:18 Hi Tellur, the younger fans are of course very important and I am not trying to insult anyone. There was a time when I also was a 'younger' fan. But there is actually some truth in what I say; when you is 18 you (PROBABLY) isn't really aware of all the genious instrumental music actually out there. In this age one is an 'easier target' to advertising, one pays more attention to what currently happens. One tends to take reviews rather seriously. Over the years I have learned that journalists very rarely has ANYTHING at all of value to say. It is good that you consider yourself still learning, keep it that way. I am not going to try to instruct you, do it yourself. Just one advise to all 'younger' fans: once you start listening to other kind of instrumental music (like classical music, and jazz) you will gain an even better understanding of Mikes music. There is no chance that you will find an artist making music sounding like Mike, so lose that dream. If you are looking for quality music, similar in structure and complexity to Mike's music but not in sound, you should search among the classical/jazz masters. Pay close attention to what Bach did; buy 'The Art Of Fuge' and astonish over its increadible depth! Endless extremely subtile variations of a very simple theme, a work that takes a life time to understand. Buy Bach's organ fantasia BWV 542 (preferably played by the genious Helmut Walcha), a work with even more intensity than Amarok. It will blow your mind! Health warning! Try Sibelius Symphony no. 4, the introvert first moment, very very demanding in its slowly changing moods. How about Miles Davis 'The Man With The Horn"? John McLaughlin 'Radioland'? I am not really claiming that TL is a bad album, it certainly has its moments, but I feel that Mike could do a lot better. IMHO he is slightly wasting his vast talent, for commercial reasons. I don't think he really needs the money that much that he can't afford some truly non-commercial albums once in a while. Ommadawn II would be nice, but why not something completely new, something really demanding, something that will last a decade? He can do it. Back to top

lazeeladuk Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: June 2002 Posted: Oct. 16 2002, 20:51 Wanderer, i just picked up on this little quote:- [NOW I FIND IT HARD TO IMAGINE THE GAME WITH A DIFFERENT SOUNDTRACK] well, wanderer try turning the sound off and slip TSODE or HR or O into your cd player and wack up the volume, then you don't need to imagine. the music in the game is better than the actual album i agree mate, but even that is poor by Mikes standards, try using one of his better works or even someone else's, there's a film called 'antarctica' and the soundtrack is by 'Vangelis' or the title track is at least but WOW it fits the game spot on try it if you can get your mitts on it Back to top

Wanderer Unregistered Posted: Oct. 19 2002, 21:25 Geez, is it so bad that I actually LIKE Mike's recent albums??? No, it's not because I don't realise how brilliant instrumental music can be and I haven't listened to enough already. I own recordings of Strauss, Gershwin, Wagner, Tchaikovsky and Bach. I own several recordings by Vangelis and Tangerine Dream. I recognise that good instrumental music can be produced by people other than Mike. I find it insulting to imply that I like Mike's recent stuff cause in some way I don't "fully understand" good music since I'm so young (19). No, I don't like his most recent work simply because I believe the sun shines out of Mike's arse and he can do no wrong. There are albums of his that I am not particularly enamoured with. "Heaven's Open" and "The Orchestral Tubular Bells" are dreadful in my opinion and I'm not really that fond of "Discovery" or "Crises" either. I can acknowledge that Mike has his faults as an individual and as a composer. I simply like his more recent output over (the warner years, if you will) because it is more eclectic and in my opinion he seems to be pushing himself MORE not less. He'll follow up a science fiction concept album with a recording of celtic folk tunes for instance. We all have different opinions, no need to say certain people don't "understand" it properly. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 20 2002, 04:58 I'm even younger than wanderer, and I am certainly not 'ignorant' of great music, infact quite the opposite. I have no idea about the popular music of today, and most of my favorurite albums were released about 10 years (or more) before I was born (Yes, Pink Floyd etc.) so I know what music can be like. However, I have not actually heard Tres Lunas yet (I am getting VERY annoyed at that!!!, but this topic seems to be about Mike's modern works in general, so I can still have an educated opinion. To be honest, the ninetees is probably my favourite of Mike's decades. Nothing he has done has been the same. He's gone from amazing instrumentals to sci fi to celtic to fully guitar works to (nearly) dance tracks and more. That's what I love, the seventies was amazing to people who liked that sort of stuff, but to me he never seemed to be breaking out or doing anything different to what he already was doing. Now he is, he is doing different things, so you can't possably expect to be mad keen on all of them. Many people say that Mike isn't putting the effort into his work that he used to, and I can sort of see what they mean. But that is not nessicarily a bad thing if you think about it. On an album like Tres Lunas, which is a chillout album, it's meant to be simple and easy to listen to. If you want just relax and listen to some music in the background, there's no point having an Amarok style one where you never no what's going on. I'm not saying that is bad, but it all depends on what mood you are in. This is a chill out album for relaxing moods, and this is what the album should be like to suit that mood. One thing I simply cannot understand is that the 'i prefer the older style albums' people are against the new TB release. I am very excited about this release, if he does it right this will be Tubular Bells, without all the dodgey istruments, and if it sounds like the Art in Heaven concert bit it will be amazing. Seriously, you don't really think he's going to screw this one up, do you? The stakes are far too high, and I think he can really do a good job of it (I sincerely hope so anyway) -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Oct. 21 2002, 05:33 I am not really claiming that younger fans cannot understand instrumental music ... But some of you seem to believe that an instrumental album automatically is non-commercial. An that is not true. Mike's later albums clearly are commercial albums. To me these albums are not that honest, like MB for instance, which to me was a cheap way of promoting an album (and a tubular bell on the cover! And Mike claiming it to be the work of his life! What a shame). I want a more introvert Mike, more effort in the composing, less talking. No promoting, just release the music. This is done by many other artists, Mike can also do it. He already has millions on his bank accounts. No pop-songs. No chill-out. No concepts. No thought audiences. Back to top

lazeeladuk Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: June 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2002, 07:50 100% AGREEMENT WITH 'THE MAN'. just normal Mike composing good music like we all know he can do, and not jumping on any sort of band wagon, ie. chill out albums."MIKE THE WORLD HAS ENOUGH PRETEND COMPOSERS, THEY ARE NOW CALLED DJs, and the market is flooded with what i call soiled music. somebody elses music being abused by some pratt that probably can't even read music     Back to top

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