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Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 16 2009, 18:31 Before anyone asks, "Austin" does not refer to the city in Texas, no. I consider this a preliminary mix, because I think there are still a few things to tweak. Also, there's a bit of "placeholder" music that shall be experimented with a lot further. However, I don't think there are any parts left to add, so I'd like to collect some opinions -- mostly about the mix, the sounds, the positioning of each instrument on the sonic space, and so on. In terms of composition, honestly, I'm not willing to change a single note; this is pretty much exactly what I wanted. You may hate it, but I'll stand by it. Long song -- nearly 11 minutes. Thick arrangement. MELLOTRON (sampled, though). Post-rockish -- has brass arrangements semi-intentionally similar to Sigur Rós (will be sued). -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: May 16 2009, 22:34 lol ugo! reckon its ok as is, deb Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: May 16 2009, 23:49 Love it!  Mix is a bit 'dry' though - needs more dynamics. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: May 17 2009, 01:49 Well, you got my attention now. Austin may be a sewer-rat-hole place to live now, but your tune reminded me of Camel "The Snow Goose".....and that should be a BIG compliment as I adore that album. I sure hope Andy Latimer is still ok, need to look him up.     I don't comment much on fan's recordings(maybe I should more but this Taylor 12 string is fascinating), but yours got me to listening. First.....if all the overdriven-ness is not due to the meduim of exchange, I'd go back and rethink some levels. The rimshot drum at the beginning.....I'm thinking hi-hat instead. But your on the right track if you have me thinking of "Snow Goose". Jim -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

miar Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: May 2009 Posted: May 17 2009, 06:35 Quote (Scatterplot @ May 17 2009, 01:49) Well, you got my attention now. Austin may be a sewer-rat-hole place to live now, but your tune reminded me of Camel "The Snow Goose".....and that should be a BIG compliment as I adore that album. I sure hope Andy Latimer is still ok, need to look him up.     I don't comment much on fan's recordings(maybe I should more but this Taylor 12 string is fascinating), but yours got me to listening. First.....if all the overdriven-ness is not due to the meduim of exchange, I'd go back and rethink some levels. The rimshot drum at the beginning.....I'm thinking hi-hat instead. But your on the right track if you have me thinking of "Snow Goose". Jim Yep! I feel the same way about this song. It sure reminds me a lot of "The Snow Goose". And that's good Btw.. Andrew is doing alright.. Im in daily contact with Andy Ward, so he tells me how he is All Andrew want is to play live again. I really hope he is able to do it someday -------------- Mia --------------- Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: May 17 2009, 07:53 Yeah I liked it a lot from the moment it started.And when I got to the end of it I felt like I`d been somewhere,which is a good sign I think.A lot of the "darker" more unexpected chord changes are growing on me the more I listen to it as well.There`s a lot of compositional depth there,and I loved the mellotron sample. "Post rockish"..yeah definetly I was kind of reminded of Bark Psychosis early on.But then lots of other stuff came into it for me echoes of Fripp & Eno and maybe early Genesis and Anthony Phillips.I`m not familiar with Camel too much though,although I do own a "version" of The Snow Goose recorded by Captain Sensible of all people.Going off the comments here,I kind of feel I should be checking more of their stuff out. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 17 2009, 16:36 The Snow Goose is an album I haven't listened to for ages now, though I have some distant (good) memories of it. I'll have to listen to it now, to see the possible connections. I definitely need to work further on the levels; it sounded more or less fine on headphones, but on the speakers, I think the instruments still aren't in balance, and the overall sound is maybe a bit too dry. I like the overdriven guitar, but I think it eats much of the space of the clean rhythm guitar -- and though I was afraid the acoustic guitar would be buried in the very final section, it cuts quite nicely through the mix, maybe even too much. Yeah, it needs work. The rimshot... for some reason, it has been the sound of choice right from the moment I conceived the tune, I have no idea why. Maybe it was influenced by the metronome on NEU!'s third record, on the third track, Seeland. I'll pay it more attention next time, to see if it isn't too harsh. I definitely took a lot of freedom with the harmonies in this album; some parts rely on very, very simple chords, others go completely out of whack. The latter part of this song was basically a little puzzle to assemble, to give it a continuous "forward" motion, and throwing in those dissonant chords to increase tension. Interestingly enough, with the help of the MIDI authoring program I use, all those chords are playable on a normally tuned guitar -- though, for the life of me, I have no idea what their names are. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: May 17 2009, 20:07 I'm a big fan of Neu!'s "Seeland" - but I don't think it's got much in common with your track.  The whole thing needs smoothing out sonically - it needs more 'space' in the mix to add some light and shade.  I think it's a great piece musically, though - but you need to heighten the 'drama' of the arrangement by allowing it some 'room to breathe'.  Eventually, it will sound fantastic I'm sure. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: May 17 2009, 22:46 Quote (smillsoid @ May 17 2009, 20:07) I'm a big fan of Neu!'s "Seeland" - but I don't think it's got much in common with your track. Yeah, I know. I was just referring specifically to the rimshot merrily clacking away on the first part, and the fact that I may have singled out that sound from hearing the metronome on NEU!'s track. Other than that, I'm quite unable to single out the "influences" through it. Quote The whole thing needs smoothing out sonically - it needs more 'space' in the mix to add some light and shade.  I think it's a great piece musically, though - but you need to heighten the 'drama' of the arrangement by allowing it some 'room to breathe'. I understand just what you mean, and I can pretty much recreate that "effect" in my head and figure out what it means. The problem is that my "production" skills are way too superficial, and I haven't even any idea on where to start. I've done some EQ modifications on a few tracks to try to make the rhythm guitars dwell more in the higher frequencies, while the overdriven bit fills out the middle range, and to try to make the piano more distinctive instead of just a mush of chords. I don't think that's enough, and I'll either have to trial-and-error my way through a very long production period, or get some tips on where to find help and what I could try. I definitely don't want to do a hackjob on this album, and I'm ready to go through a real ordeal to make it sound good. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: May 18 2009, 00:41 It may be something as simple as varying the degree of reverb/delay on each track in the mix, until you've allowed each instrument to have its own space.  Remember what Mike said about his music (specifically TB1), that you should be able to hear each individual instrument - to the degree that you can, if you want, solely focus on say the bass guitar.  Sometimes you do want to create a 'wall of sound' - but at other times you want some emptiness, or 'air around the instruments'.  Don't be afraid to leave 'holes' in your music!  Also, I'm sure you're competent enough to make this piece sound terrific, based on what I've heard so far. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1981 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: May 18 2009, 11:15 Sometimes reading the manuals for all the mixers, sequencing software(I like Cakewalk Music Creator), FX processors can be frustrating. Right now, I think it would be good for you to chill for 45 minutes to The Snow Goose. Even though it was recorded in 1975 it was a very high quality recording. I learned a lot about production before I really owned any synths/mixers/software/drum machines from listening to these old cherished recordings so many times. I'm not sure, but I think it was George Martin's book "Making Music" where I read that setting the level for a lead vocal(or instrument) was like setting it so it just "rided the crest of the wave". That book, kind of old, came out when the Fairlight CMI was the newest technology of the time(1980?), but Sir George's quality recordings have been proven without arguement. Also, you can go to musiciansfreind.com and find a link on "articles". There are many articles on vocals, levels, EQ, FX, you name it. Great reading there.......and thats just for starters. My 2 cents worth. Jim PS: While you're there look for a link on "videos". There are many, I think linked from Harmony Central. One is an interview of Mark Farner, Git player/front man for Grand Funk Railroad. He talks about some interesting and funny stuph for about 20 minutes: his "Messenger" guitar(with an A=440hz tuning fork inside the neck), his Parker Fly, Frank Zappa(did not do drugs but drank so much coffee he could make a cup of coffee nervous), Todd Rundgren, etc. Fun video! -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 01 2009, 11:34 Austin is currently "on hold" now, and I can see I've got plenty of work left to do in it in terms of production (I'm unsatisfied with the distorted guitar -- I can't hear the chords it's playing), but I've enjoyed the enduring days of college vacations and recorded another track, which is the second track from the album. It's a... well, actually I can't describe it. It stomps and bounces and crashes into flailing atonal portions with a small orchestra, and all I know is that it's not rock. But I don't know what it is. So here's "Pablo". -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Guest Unregistered Posted: Aug. 01 2009, 13:10 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 01 2009, 17:34) It stomps and bounces and crashes into flailing atonal portions with a small orchestra, and all I know is that it's not rock. But I don't know what it is. sounds almost like somebody dipped a cat in lighter fluid and set the poor thing on fire     Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: Aug. 01 2009, 15:02 I'd call that "free-form jazz".  If I'm honest, this isn't really to my taste, but I do appreciate the complexity of the piece.  In terms of my completely objective constructive criticism, I'd suggest that the atonal sections work well during the main body of the work, but test the listener's patience at the end.  Hope this helps. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Aug. 01 2009, 17:04 I was reminded of Brand X meets Cannonball Adderley meets Super Mario Kart.With a little bit of Anthony Phillips & Lindsay Cooper thrown in there as well.I dunno` I`m guessing all that probably means nothing whatsover to you Sir M.I did kind of enjoy it though,even though like Smillsoid it`s probably not my kind of thing.There is a a kind of "free form jazz" element there I agree,but I felt it was still too well structured and kind of prog/classical for it to be solely classified as anything.I think I got off most of all on the slightly mad playfulness of it all."Pablo" kind of strikes me as a fun guy to be around,who maybe intentionaly goes out of his way every now and then to get right on your nerves.And in a strange way I kind of like "him" for that...Are the "titles" of these pieces entirely random/fictitous is what I`d like to ask,I think?..It`s good though,and the complexities of it make me want to listen to it more. Back to top

Ginger Daddy Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: April 2002 Posted: Aug. 01 2009, 17:23 It reminded me of some of David Bedford's more avant-garde pieces of music - sections of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner spring to mind. Not my cup of tea unfortunately although  from an analytical point of view I do think it was well put together. I also think that with a proper orchestra it might sound more impressive, but unless you've got an orchestra living round the corner... Cheers, Terry. -------------- http://purplerhapsody.co.uk - no words, just emotions Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: Aug. 02 2009, 01:07 Maybe it's how well atonalism is embedded within the piece that matters.  If you're using it as a 'colour' in your sound palette, and developing it structurally - like Penderecki for example - then that's engaging for the listener.  However, if the atonalism seems random and misplaced, this can cause a jarring alienation effect that distances the listener from the sound.  You need to have a balance between the dischords and harmonic, sonic qualities that 'draw the listener in'. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 02 2009, 01:13 I enjoyed your description, Dirk. The namedrops so far only vaguely ring a bell on me -- I the only direct references are a sort-of parody of Frank Zappa near the end, and the synth solo which was kind of inspired by Brian Eno's solo on Editions of You, by Roxy Music. But if you noticed the "mad playfulness" of the song, I think you really got the spirit I had when making it. As for the titles, they refer to The Backyardigans, but you don't need to watch the cartoon to understand the songs. I don't want the listener to be influenced by these titles and try to find one specific meaning in the songs (especially since my influences were not that specific and strict). I don't want to sound like there's one "right" way to listen to the song and the others are "wrong", you know? The listener is the king, I'm not the one to go around saying what people should think. One thing I can say, though, is that I have absolutely zero training on the academic aspects of what makes music complex and rich, and everything in this song was written and chosen on a "this sounds fun" and "this sounds awful" basis. I wanted to make a fun song, not a "demanding" song -- of course, this kind of "fun" may be completely alien to the fans of the Jonas Brothers, for example, but that's part of the game! I definitely need to go back to this song with a fresh mind later on -- I listened to it way too many times while working on it, and if there's anything that tests the listener's patience, I have to reconsider. There's plenty of time for tinkering, and three more tracks to record. Thank you all very kindly for all the comments, folks. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Aug. 02 2009, 08:35 Aah yes The Backyardigans,I should`ve known.Thanks for that Sir M,looking forward to hearing the rest of the characters/tracks. Back to top

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