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Guest Unregistered Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 10:29 - his composing skills, his engineering skills and his skills to play a very wide range of musical instruments, if the price for that is you also inherit his very fragile mind in his youth? Is it worth it? Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 12:28 No. Well, I wouldn't want to inherit the childhood: - a mother that can barely function, then she took her own life, from what I understand, when he was only 21. Poor lad. Do you need to be messed up to be a great musician ? -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Guest Unregistered Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 12:42 Quote (wiga @ Jan. 03 2009, 17:28) No. Well, I wouldn't want to inherit the childhood: - a mother that can barely function, then she took her own life, from what I understand, when he was only 21. Poor lad. Do you need to be messed up to be a great musician ? Well, as I see it, the more troubled mind the greater is the creative outlet.. Most of the this worlds greatest artist, whatever they paint, make music, sing etc etc..seems to me to have troubled minds.. Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 16:06 This kind of question always fascinates me. And I can't come to a definite decision. In my view, true works of art, outstanding works of art, often come from some thing bad...an expression of feeling in it's purest form..as viewers/listeners it's something we can understand unconsciously..something we can connect with. By saying that I am not saying that anything created with sheer hard work and practise is worthless...it's just that in a piece of art/music  where there was a dimension of emotion in it's creation it is possible for a human being to identify that very thing & it adds an indefinable, limitless quality and a timelessness to the art. Listening to Mike Oldfiled takes me away from the here and now. It somehow helps me to rethink things more clearly, and at times when I just feel I can't talk to anyone ( and there are many of those times ) it is always there and gives relief from the turmoil in my mind. And i know in the past it has been said that it is me, as the listener, bringing emotion to the music to see it there..but I just don't think that is totally true. Something 'in' me, understands something 'in' the music. Empathy i suppose. It is worth it if by being able to express such feelings in music Mike felt better able to cope or block out something he just couldn't deal with. It also, perhaps, serves a reminder to those in more comfortable circumstances, to appreciate what they do have. All this ofcourse is with hindsight because generally we don't tell everyone our problems as we go through them. So the art, whatever it is, is a form of communication and is as such recorded for the future and becomes part of our general and social conscience. I still feel though that true talent will always surface, whatever. Have been listening to Seasick Steve lately, the Blues, and he hasn't exactly had an easy life, left home very early, no education, no food, no regular work, no home, he just survived, life was about getting through the day but he taught himself to play the guitar and make such an incredible and real sound and it now brings him success he'd never have dreamed of. It was a natural thing to him, something he found he wanted to do. I wonder what Mike would think about this. -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

Harmono Group: Members Posts: 759 Joined: May 2005 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 16:14 It's impossible to know. If I'm him, I'm not me. But I must say. Many want to be someone else and it is a little disturbing, I must say. The brain. It doesn't work that way. If one is MO for a day and comes back to being oneself again, he or she can't remember a thing about it. It's all to do with neural pathways. But enough with the babble. Sure I'd love to play like Mike. And women, I'd love to introduce myself as a Guitar God. Why not. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 17:52 I'm pretty sure I'd happily decline that, for several reasons. For one, I already have my own musical aptitude -- mediocre and extremely limited, true, but it's mine; and I can't picture myself living the kind of life he lived. So, double no, basically. In a deeper note now, I'm really not sure where music and art truly come from. I can say "from the confines of one's brain", and it would be (scientifically) accurate, but on a more psychological way, I don't know. But I'm quite sure that art can come from everything. Negative experiences can yield excellent art, indeed, but it can also yield garbage -- just listen to Simple Plan. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 18:05 I once read somewhere..I forget where...Art can be anything, but not anything can be art.. and although I am incapable of explaining it very well, it seems pretty spot on to me. Sort of that for anything to be appreciated as art it requires that someone ( the artist)  has seen something special/ different/ that needs to be shared or held out in the open for anyone to see. Art makes adifference to life, remove it and so much meaning disappears. I know I go on and on about art and music but I do see the two very much interconnected as music always brings strong and powerful images to my mind. Apologies for bad typing tonight, should ofcourse be Oldfield and not Oldfiled as I put earlier. I need to slep..sleep! -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

Guest Unregistered Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 18:36 wauv, BEE - you certainly put some words right into my mouth.. I couldn´t explain it myself, not being very good at English language, but you hit it spot on.. I makes me wonder somewhat... Maybe MO´s music is more attractive for people with troubled minds? I have never understood why he is not more well-known and has better reputation being that genius that I think he is. - Maybe "normal" people (wtf that ever means) don´t feel the need or just don´t understand his music and creativeness and are just happy singing lightheaded along Britney Spears & Take That reruns without the need for deep thoughts?? Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 03 2009, 20:28 I would disagree that you need to be 'messed up' to be a great musician or artist. Possibly it helps, but many of my favourite artists seem perfectly happy people. I can't imagine the members of Sigur Ros being 'messed up' in the slightest, and yet (for me at least) they have created true masterpieces. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: Jan. 04 2009, 01:35 I think difficult circumstances, or a troubled psyche, can act as a catalyst enabling a person to tap into his creative potential. But I don't think that's necessarily the only, or even the best, way to release one's inner artist. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Jan. 04 2009, 06:10 I have never come across a musician like Mike Oldfield who can convey the depth and intricacy of feelings and emotions quite like he does. Infact nobody comes close. Some artists are good at conveying one-dimensional feelings, such as melancholy, passion or anger, but Mike covers the full realm of feelings, with all its constellations. I think we can act as if we are one-dimensional people and sometimes other people encourage this. They may say, - he's a happy person, he's an angry person or he's a miserable git. The fact of the matter is, there is a lot more to us, - we are a mass of complexities and if we are lucky, we get to show and share some of these sides with other people and feel understood. Alternatively, we can also tap into Mike's music, not just for his musical talents, but for this extraordinary expertise to convey every feeling known to man. He shows all his sides, infact he puts it all out there. He makes us feel understood and normal. Some of this "expertise" and sensitivity must originate from the traumatic experiences of his youth. He understands love, loss, helplessness, hopelessness, saddness, abandonment, confusion, anxiety, shame, emptyness, rejection, yearning, anger and dispair. And he knows his joys !! -  humour, humility, patience, risk taking, play, compassion, empathy, romance, love of life and humanity. A healer too. Perfectly qualified for the job ..   ....and he should be recognised in The Honour's List by now !! -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Jan. 04 2009, 15:49 Quote (raven4x4x @ Jan. 03 2009, 20:28) I would disagree that you need to be 'messed up' to be a great musician or artist. Possibly it helps, but many of my favourite artists seem perfectly happy people. I can't imagine the members of Sigur Ros being 'messed up' in the slightest, and yet (for me at least) they have created true masterpieces. Good call on Sigur Rós -- everything related to them indicates they're absolutely easy going and nice people, and in fact they take their own music far LESS seriously than many of their fans (I remember someone raging on YouTube because the band could only "explain" their made-up language as "blah blah blah"). Quote Maybe MO´s music is more attractive for people with troubled minds? I have never understood why he is not more well-known and has better reputation being that genius that I think he is. - Maybe "normal" people (wtf that ever means) don´t feel the need or just don´t understand his music and creativeness and are just happy singing lightheaded along Britney Spears & Take That reruns without the need for deep thoughts?? Maybe people just don't know him. If we had to count every amazing musician that nobody here has ever heard about, we'd probably run out of numbers. And the non-fans of Oldfield may be either singing along to Britney or to some other genius like David Byrne. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Jan. 05 2009, 09:03 Difficult question.Yes i'd love to be as good a musician as Mike,who wouldn't?To be able to play like him would be a great thing as he is a unique guitarist and actually highly technically gifted.The flip side is absolutley not if it means being so messed up.Mike himself said that after Exegesis he had to change his way of creating music as before hand it was,in his words.'nuclear powered',because he used it as a means of sheilding himself from the pain of his background and from his increasing instability.So while i admire his music and musicianship i wouldn't swap my very stable family background and extremely happy childhood,for which i am eternally gratefull (despite reaccuring problems with my mental health in my 20's to present),for his awfull early life in order to achieve that level of ability. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: Jan. 05 2009, 22:49 It comes down to nature versus nurture. All people have the ability to rise up from disadvantages in childhood. In Mike's case, he has risen like a pheonix from the ashes. I really hate to think of his mother in the manner some portray. Mike loved his mother and was devastated when she died. She had issues in her marriage and life that medicine could not or would not address back then. I nursed for twenty years and remember well how backward, draconian and limited approaches were. Women were termed"hysterical" by virtue of being female and deserved little sympathy when depressed. She may well have had Post Natal depression after the birth and death of Mike's younger brother. Mike's dad was a G.P. and ethically unable to treat his wife, so Mike would have felt his family and life were in freefall, and probably scared, confused and determined to make a success out of his life despite the sadness of his youth. His musical gift and talent, plus his generous and kind nature to his family and friends show this man to be the true down to earth soul he is. God Bless Mike, Deb Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 05:29 Quote (ex member 419 @ Jan. 05 2009, 22:49) It comes down to nature versus nurture. All people have the ability to rise up from disadvantages in childhood. In Mike's case, he has risen like a pheonix from the ashes. Deb Mike's mother, Maureen was unable to rise from the ashes so to speak, and I have wondered about this. I read in his autobiography that she was disowned and banished by her parents for marrying a man of another faith. That to me is a very wicked and cruel thing for a parent to do to a child. Parents are supposed to bestow confidence and self belief in their kids. The seeds of self doubt must have been planted there already, and then when she lost a child, I wouldn't be surprised if she thought it was God's punishment, - that she deserved it. The shame and her troubled mind must have preoccupied her to the extent that she couldn't focus on her own kids. You get a sense though that there was no intentional cruelty there on her part, unlike the cruelty done to her. She just couldn't cope, unless her kids were ill of course, and then she seemed to come to her senses - temporarily. It seems to me that Mike felt loved by his parents and so maybe his traumas were "easier" to recover from than Maureen's. He also wasn't a victim of the religious indoctrination that she was subjected to, or rather he had rejected any such attempts at an early age. Isn't "shame" a useless and shit emotion - what use are you to anyone if you live in a state of self-condemnation. Right, I'm going to lighten up now and move on to the canned goods section     -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 08:43 Makes you wonder how people of different faiths can condemn someone for falling in love,which is what it boils down to.My Grandad was Irish and married my Nan who was,and still is,a staunch Church of England christian and English.They suffered no such treatment from Grandad's family so there must have been some sort of serios resentment towards anyone of a different faith within Maureen's family.This is no excuse for disowningAlthough i have respect for anyone's religious beliefs (despite my own) i never can understand how this comes about.You cannot help who you fall in love with and their religious beliefs shouldn't come into it.When my daughters grow up i hope they are happy with whoever they choose to be with regardless of any religious issues,which i believe is what all parents should want for their children. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 09:02 Quote (The Caveman @ Jan. 06 2009, 08:43) Makes you wonder how people of different faiths can condemn someone for falling in love,which is what it boils down to. This is one of the most prominent and definitive reasons why I decided to reject every sort of religion. Somehow, does not matter how or when, any religion eventually finds a way to punish love -- be it through false morals, be it through condemnation of homossexuals, be it through rivalry between different religions, basically anything goes. Luckily not every religious people allows himself to be led towards those pitfalls, so I have no reason to condemn spirituality itself. Everyone should know what truly fulfills him, and that's what I defend. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Jan. 06 2009, 12:22 Well said that man!!! -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Silver Negus Group: Members Posts: 357 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Jan. 18 2009, 11:09 Quote (wiga @ Jan. 03 2009, 12:28) No. Well, I wouldn't want to inherit the childhood: - a mother that can barely function, then she took her own life, from what I understand, when he was only 21. Poor lad. Do you need to be messed up to be a great musician ? I can see why you say this Wiga and I've thought about this.  Obviously I know we can't and I won't  mention much on this type of topic. First and last time I promise. There is controversy about how this lady came to pass on.  Environmental factors may have affected this lady.  She then was given medication.  Something like- 'handed out' and then she came to think she NEEDED this medication. In turn, medication has side affects, and can make reactions/movements a lot slower etc etc. In my OPINION, with a lot considered, this lady does NOT seem like one to have taken her own life.  'Too strong willed for that.' However there is only one person who really knows what happened, and she is not here to tell and defend herself.  To me she seems like a person whom for the most part may have had a 'good sense of humour.' Rest assured whilst Mike has good and bad memories, this balance, in turn with being resillient has made him become a high achiever.  If it were not for his mother and her what has been described as 'her vibrancy' and 'epic srories', and varied personality and the lessons she taught her children, would Mike have gone on to create some of the epic music he has brought to the table. Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Jan. 18 2009, 12:07 Can I ask you Silver Negus - would you have chosen to inherit Mike's musical abilities if it meant inheriting his difficult childhood and consequently the trauma to his mind ? My answer I have already said is an emphatic "no". I look at this entirely from the perspective of what's right for the child, much like a social worker might think. Forget the parent's perspective for a minute here - there was serious neglect and "failure to protect". No child should be subject to those conditions -infact these days any child living in such a situation could be taken into care. Yes Maureen did bring good things like humour, stories and vibrancy before she became seriously depressed and Mike has internalised these good bits - thank goodness for that. Yes, we don't know if Maureen took her own life for sure, but we know she was depressed and potentially self destructive at the time. Again my heart goes out to any kid who loses a parent this way. I sure would not have wanted to swop places with him and inherited all that crazy thinking and high anxiety that he has spent a lifetime recovering from. -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

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